10-25-2024, 09:41 PM | #31 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Re: Federal LEO or Other Jobs for Unfazeable Killer in 1953
I'll third U.S. Marshal as a good option.
In addition to their normal law enforcement duties, they lead searches for escaped federal prisoners, or any other escapee who crosses state borders. They also escort federal prisoners who must travel, for whatever reason. If you've ever seen the film, The Fugitive, with Harrison Ford and Tommy Lee Jones, you'd have an idea of what they do. While the real ones must obey the U.S. Constitution a little more closely than depicted in the film, deputy U.S. marshals assigned to fugitive apprehension have more leeway to use force than most, since they hunt convicted criminals. Another fun fictional version of U.S. Marshals can be seen in the two TV series, Justified and Justified: City Primeval, starring Timothy Olyphant. While Olyphant's Raylan Givens might be a little too heroic (well, kinda-sorta...) as a model for this particular character, Tim Gutterson (portrayed by Jacob Pitts) might work. Unfortunately, the Federal Air Marshal Service wasn't formed until 1962. That agency absolutely requires superb marksmanship.
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-- MXLP:9 [JD=1, DK=1, DM-M=1, M(FAW)=1, SS=2, Nym=1 (nose coffee), sj=1 (nose cocoa), Maz=1] "Some days, I just don't know what to think." -Daryl Dixon. |
10-26-2024, 02:19 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Newest Information on Special Forces and Tony Manzano's Chances
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During his service on that staff, LTC Melvin R. Blair (who was a former Merrill's Maurauder) and COL Volckmann (of guerilla fame in the Philippines during WWII) were ultimately responsible for determining what kind of men were needed for Special Forces, both the operational group of10th SFG and the Special Forces Department of the Psychological Warfare Center at Fort Bragg, i.e. the people who'd train new Special Forces officers and enlisted men. COL Volckmann was sent on a recruiting trip to all US bases in Europe, LTC Melvin R. Blair covered Special Forces recruiting from US units stationed anywhere other than Europe, including both CONUS and the Far East. I even know for a fact that the 3/24, under the command of LTC Melvin R. Blair, was stationed next to the flank of the 2nd Division on several crucial occasions, including at Kunu-Ri, when a few officers and small clusters of men from the 2nd and 25th Divisions delayed the Chinese long enough for the 2nd Division to retreat through the Gauntlet and survive, though with the loss of about half their effective manpower, much of their vehicles, almost all of their engineering equipment, 40% of their signalling gear, etc. In real life, one of those was Captain Farnum, 2d ECB, the only officer of the combat engineers of the 2nd Division not to be killed, captured or wounded. And the man whose testimony would lead to Tony Manzano getting decorated and being offered a battlefield commission. Though for the battlefield commission, it's not like there was much choice in the matter, they still had almost three hundred surviving combat engineers and just the one officer. Captain Farnum noted in his later interviews with Army historians (the 2nd Division lost all paperwork during their retreat) that they commissioned several NCOs of the battalion, due to their dire need for leadership during the rebuild of the 2d ECB. In the almost infrastructure-free Korea of 1950, with almost no roads fit for US Army logistics, tanks or just the trucks that transported men, not to mention the mine fields set by both sides (during their retreat from North Korea, the Eighth Army laid down vast numbers of mines, which later had to be cleared before they could counter-attack the Chinese forces), the 2nd Division wouldn't be combat-effective without functioning engineer support. Crucially when it comes for research on the fictional Tony Manzano and the real LTC Melvin R. Blair, and exactly where and when they might have fought side-by-side, the 3/24 was one of only four segregated regiments in the US Army at the time. It was disbanded later in the Korean War, October 1951, and the reasons have been researched better than most events in the Korean War. In 1950, numerous officers had demanded they be disbanded for cowardice, failure to obey orders and a basic lack of trust in the unit for any duties. At the same time, official Army policy was suposed to be desegregation and when they were disbanded, the cited reason had nothing to do with the performance of the unit, but simply long-overdue compliance with Army policy. Soldiers of the 24th Infantry were distributed among other units of the Eighth Army and reportedly, this did not cause any racial incidents that interfered with the combat effectiveness of the forces in Korea for the rest of the war. Army historians conducted exhaustive research of the performance of the 24th Infantry in combat from June 1950 to October 1951. That includes the early period where they failed often and disastrously in combat, such as at the Pusan perimeter, but also later periods, where there are sharp disagreements about their performance, what orders their officers actually did receive, what they knew of the situation, whether decisions of their officers were ultimately responsible for combat failures of the 24th Infantry, but also whether senior officers opposed to African-American combat units at all might have unfairly blamed them for failures of the officers or the Army as a whole (the forces in Korea in June 1950 were neither trained nor equipped for ground warfare on such a scale) and whether creditable performances of the 24th Infantry might have been overlooked. Basically, I'm reading through research more thorough than any other of the Korean War of every minute the 24th Infantry was deployed there. Including all combat they engaged in, where each officer was located at the time, and such minute details. I'll be ready to roll dice on exactly when LTC Melvin R. Blair encountered Tony Manzano, what he might have witnessed and remembered him doing under fire, and what his Reaction to Tony would be, counting all modifiers. Based on that, I can determine the odds of whether LTC Blair asks for Tony Manzano by name, and if he does, what he wants him for. LTC Blair might ask for him as an Army Corps of Engineers officer (albeit without the education or usual branch training) to serve on the Special Operations Division staff, even before the Special Forces Department or 10th Special Forces Group are established under the Psychological Warfare Center. He might ask for him as an instructor in demolitions and combat engineering, either for Special Forces officers or Engineer Sergeants. Or LTC Blair might ask for 2LT Manzano as one of the officers they want for the 10th SFG. Depending on what LTC Blair asks and when, 2LT Manzano might be offered a Reserve commission in place of his clearly temporary 'Army of the United States' commission, which would cease to exist as soon as the Korean War ended (in the sense of a wartime Army being stationed there, so the Armstice would be enough). Or Tony might just be offered an NCO billet, as an instructor or, potentially, as a Special Forces Engineer Sergeant. When and if LTC Blair asks and whether 2LT Manzano volunteers (and his superiors at the time let him) will also determine whether Tony has to attend the Special Forces Qualification Course and, if he does, what kind of course. Several of the officers who designed the SFQC served as officers of Special Forces without formally going through the Q Course they designed. And, of course, none of the instructors had to attend the Q Course.
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10-26-2024, 02:46 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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US Marshals - Are they cool in the 1950s or are there better options at that time?
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I know that the USMS-led Violent Offender and Fugitive Task Forces reversed this trend and made Deputy US Marshals cool again. What I don't know (but have queued up some research on in my Kindle) is where, exactly, the reputation and excitement-level of the USMS was during the 1950s. Was that before the worst of the 'dark period' when every federal law endorcement agency seemed more important and cooler than the USMS? Or was it squarely in the middle of it, with the almost-mythical FBI, the Secret Service and other Treasury agents, Bureau of Narcotics and various other federal agencies crowding out the US Marshals so much that they were regarded as federal bailiffs and correctional officers? In the first instance, the USMS seems like a good fit. In the second instance, Tony Manzano would probably prefer joining the Bureau of Indian Affairs,
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 10-26-2024 at 11:56 AM. |
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10-26-2024, 01:35 PM | #34 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Antonio 'Tony' Manzano - Heroic? His Code, Principles and Values
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First of all, his father, Giovanni Carlo 'Giancarlo' Manzano, moved to America as a child, liked a lot about it and isn't looking to move back to Italy, but Giancarlo considers himself an Italian who just happens to live out West. The American flag doesn't mean much to Giancarlo and he didn't raise his sons so much to be good Americans, as he tried to raise them as Honourable Men. Now, Giancarlo is from Lombardy, not Sicily or Naples, but the Italian concept of uomo d'onore owes a lot to feudal values and personally protecting your family and the family honour. A Man of Honour will not meekly report a crime against his family to the authorities and then trust the police, he will defend his family with his lupara, blade and accepting that, if necessary, his own life and any consequences which accrue to him are less important than his honour. Juana Abeyta doesn't regard herself as an American, at least not in the sense of the United States of America. She is Shiewhibak, born and raised on Pueblo Isleta, and while she is of mixed heritage, with Mexican and Anglo blood as well as Native American, she regards both Hispanics and Anglos with some distrust, and definitely not as Her People. The rejection she feels from the restrictive definition of the Blood Quantum laws of 1934, where only those with 50% tribal blood can be legally enrolled among the Isleta Pueblo and have voting rights within the tribe, means that Juana basically feels her family is her only true homeland and heritage. With Giancarlo and Juana as parents, Tony Manzano was not raised to follow a flag or belong anywhere but with his family. With Selective Service, though, Tony would have been drafted if he didn't go to college, and the Manzanos could definitely not afford that for all their children. So, Tony enlisted so that his more bookish siblings could maybe afford college. At the time he did, there was no war on and no one expected one. He thought he'd continue learning useful trade skills, in the Corps of Engineers, while being stationed on some big military base in the US, Europe or Japan. The Sense of Duty he was raised with is just toward Family. In practical terms, Tony isn't particular about genetics when it comes to 'Family', so it extends to any loved ones, to friends, to loved ones of friends, and basically anyone who counts as His People. Turns out, in a military setting, His People rapidly turn out to constitute his squad, his platoon, and after four months of horror, every single survivor of the 2d Engineer Combat Battalion, plus any of the soldiers, stragglers from multiple units, who followed him after the defeat at Kunu-Ri, and he led back to friendly lines. Practically, we can call his Sense of Duty (Family, Friends and Comrades-in-Arms). His Code of Honour also comes from how Giancarlo and Juana raised him. It doesn't confine him to fighting stupid, require him to tell the truth at all times or follow the law. It just means that he will provide for his Family (His People) even if doing so requires breaking the law or taking risks. It means he will protect His People and avenge them personally and Biblically if he can't protect them. And while he can lie if needed, if he gives his word, that word is his bond. And he will judge a man by his honour and deeds, not by his blood or the law. Politics don't matter much to Tony. When he was sent to Korea, he could not have defined 'Communism' and he'd not do much better in defining the differences between Democrats and Republicans. During July to December 1950, Tony learned from the unpreparedness of UN forces and the way political commissars on the opposite side treat the common soldiers that all politicians must be either fools or monsters. As a matter of personality, more than something he was taught, Tony hates to see children suffer and will not hesitate to murder anyone who'll prey on them, use them as human shields or arm them and send them out to fight. Instead of Truth, Justice and the American Way; it's his Word, his Justice and the Family Way. More Michael Corleone than Clark Kent. On the other hand, he could be as heroic as Raylan Givens as a Deputy US Marshal, depending on what he's doing. Like Raylan, he might be involved in a lot of shootings, but unlike Raylan, Tony would need to learn a lot of legal subleties and law enforcement regulations to ensure he wouldn't end up on the wrong side of the prison bars.
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10-27-2024, 12:14 AM | #35 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Re: Antonio 'Tony' Manzano - Heroic? His Code, Principles and Values
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So, that part wouldn't work for Manzano. In fact, his devotion to his family and his casual disregard for patriotism or "traditional American values" suggests a slightly different twist, maybe? Tony maybe joined the Marshal's service to help his family -- including his mother's people, some of whom live in a reservation? Or keep domestic terror groups and "White Defense Councils" from targeting Italians and other Catholics? That makes the Marshal's service a means to an end for the character, and sets up a constant source of tension between his personal loyalties and the legal duties and constraints he faces in his professional life. Here are a couple of decent overviews of the history of the service. https://usmmuseum.org/wp-content/upl...uide-Final.pdf https://www.governmentattic.org/40do...bHist_1977.pdf You are correct; the period from about WWI through about the mid-1950s was pretty rough for the USMS. However, the Civil Rights Movement in the United States proved a catalyst for much-needed change and a shift toward professional standards. Local police -- and even state police -- were frequently centers of racial bigotry. Nobody could count on them to enforce U.S. Supreme Court decisions about desegregation and civil liberties for blacks and Hispanics (the Texas Rangers were particularly notorious for violence against minority groups), while the U.S. military and National Guard wasn't trained for the work. The FBI focused on civil insurrectionists, domestic terrorists, crimes across state lines and national boundaries, as well as counter-intelligence in U.S. territories during the depths of the Cold War. That left a gap for a civilian law enforcement agency whose personnel could and would enforce federal law and court decisions in spite of opposition by state and local governments, and assist such organizations as the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the National Park Service with crimes on reservations and federal lands. It also means the Marshals sometimes might find themselves in conflict with FBI operations against those the bureau considered possible "terrorists," as the Deputy U.S. Marshals tried to protect some of those same people from extra-legal violence and violations of their civil liberties by state and local law enforcement. While at other times, the marshals find themselves struggling discern when civil rights activism crosses the line to unlawful political violence (for example, at the Wounded Knee Occupation in 1973). The two .pdf documents offer decent overviews, I think.
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-- MXLP:9 [JD=1, DK=1, DM-M=1, M(FAW)=1, SS=2, Nym=1 (nose coffee), sj=1 (nose cocoa), Maz=1] "Some days, I just don't know what to think." -Daryl Dixon. Last edited by tshiggins; 10-27-2024 at 12:43 AM. |
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10-27-2024, 01:12 AM | #36 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Antonio 'Tony' Manzano - Heroic? His Code, Principles and Values
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Salvatore Manzano, Tony's younger brother, became a tribal police officer. No law forbidding that, even if his blood quanta is too low to vote in Pueblo Isleta elections, or get checks from their gaming income. Some of his brothers also got reserve deputy badges from Bernalillo County Sheriff or other nearby county sheriffs, so they could legally stand up to Alberquerque Police Department in case they came onto Pueblo Isleta. Quote:
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He might be a thorn in the side of superior officers in the BIA, though, as he believes that a man's worth can be measured by whether he is true to his word. It might be a pretty ugly situation if a locally famous war hero resigns from the BIA because he cannot work with two-faced men with no honour. He's not only Unfazeable when it comes to physical danger, he also scorns the risk of legal punishment or official smear campaigns.
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10-27-2024, 02:12 AM | #37 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Re: Antonio 'Tony' Manzano - Heroic? His Code, Principles and Values
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However, BIA personnel have no law-enforcement authority. Federal law enforcement on reservation lands is provided by the FBI, the U.S. Marshal Service, and other agents, in cooperation with tribal police. (Tribal police became increasingly professional starting in the late 1970s, and then federal standards were established by the Indian Law Enforcement Act of 1989-90, which made local tribal officers federal employees and mandated training and equipment. However, they only have jurisdiction in their particular reservations and lean heavily on other federal agencies for support. Back in the 1950s, those other agencies ran the whole show and tribal police -- if they existed at all -- were relegated to routine matters such as domestic violence, traffic violations and other such responsibilities.) So, if Tony were a bean-counter, the BIA would be the obvious choice; but since he's a man of action, he likely would go to one of the federal law enforcement agencies.
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-- MXLP:9 [JD=1, DK=1, DM-M=1, M(FAW)=1, SS=2, Nym=1 (nose coffee), sj=1 (nose cocoa), Maz=1] "Some days, I just don't know what to think." -Daryl Dixon. |
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10-27-2024, 09:07 AM | #38 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Antonio 'Tony' Manzano - Heroic? His Code, Principles and Values
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If the Bureau of Indian Affairs Police of the 1950s are no good, then Deputy US Marshal would be valid. I just found it convenient that the BIA Police was headquartered in Albuquerque, NM, and could legitimately tell APD officers to beat it from any crime scene involving Native Americans, because they were federal and their jurisdiction superseded municipal police when it came to the federally recognized tribes.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 10-27-2024 at 09:13 AM. |
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10-27-2024, 07:41 PM | #39 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Re: Antonio 'Tony' Manzano - Heroic? His Code, Principles and Values
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I'm honestly not sure they did much between WWI and the 1960s, although they certainly existed. I know the early 1950s remained well within the timeframe for not-quite-forced assimilation of American Indian populations -- including boarding schools that refused to permit native kids to speak their mother tongues or otherwise engage in tribal cultural activities. This tells me the few tribal police who existed at the time exercised very little in the way of autonomy; held sharply circumscribed power and authority; and were likely wholly subordinate to federal law enforcement. Basically, assume that until the 1970s life well and truly sucked (by modern standards) for most minority populations in most places in the United States -- especially on the Reservations. So, any federal agent that actually helped people, and didn't just control them, would find himself highly valued by just about everybody except his bosses -- and maybe even by them, too.
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-- MXLP:9 [JD=1, DK=1, DM-M=1, M(FAW)=1, SS=2, Nym=1 (nose coffee), sj=1 (nose cocoa), Maz=1] "Some days, I just don't know what to think." -Daryl Dixon. |
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10-28-2024, 07:33 PM | #40 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Antonio 'Tony' Manzano - Heroic? His Code, Principles and Values
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Never mind if they have some rear-echelon CPT from the Ordnance branch supposed to command them for the next few months, until said REMF rotates home ahead of many fighting soldiers who've been with the 2d ECB longer, because four years of garrison duty gives you more points than just having spent six months fighting, especially if your unit is officially classified as a 'combat support' unit. I don't think it makes a difference who asks for him or for what job, Tony won't rotate home until the Army makes him. As soon as the pace of combat slackens, though, they might be forced to rotate him out of the Far East theatre, if LTC Melvin R. Blair, who in real life admitted to almost wearing out the phone lines to the Pentagon bureau concerned with Army-wide Personnel and transfers, as all it takes for someone who has accumulated enough points to be rotated out is their replacement arriving at their post. So, if LTC Blair can locate a young officer of the Army Corps of Engineers actually willing and eager to go fight in Korea, he might be able to force Tony to be assigned somewhere CONUS. Now, Tony's original enlistment ends in May, 1952. He accepted a battlefield commission, but that promotion isn't permanent unless the Army's Bureau of Personnel makes it a Regular Army or Reserve commission, as theater rank in the 'Army of the United States' is an ephemeral thing that evaporates as soon as wars end. He might even lose it just by being rotated home, depending on his exact orders... but if he does, nothing really requires him to stay in the Army beyond May, 1952. It's fairly plausible he'd be offered some way to participate in the founding of the Special Forces. If he's there early enough, maybe even without ever going through a Q-course himself, which would mean his weaknesses in land navigation, swimming and general lack of the exceptional athleticism supposed to distinguish the Special Forces would not be revealed. If he's too late for that, maybe he flunks out, maybe someone arranges swimming lessons, orienteering instruction and enough time and medical attention to recover from 6+, maybe as many as 18 months, of what amounted to trench warfare with better weapons, in worse weather, with little shelter and plenty of altitude. In any case, if he decides he doesn't want anything to do with a new Army outfit, special or not, he'd be out at some point in 1952, maybe mid-point of 1953 at the latest. If he does get rotated home, but doesn't get a Special Forces commission or assignment, he's out mid-1952. In either case, he'd be looking for a job close to home where he could earn some money driving a bulldozer, bossing around a crew, working in a machine shop or with a firearms manufacturer, or some kind of law enforcement. As long as it's not the Albuquerque Police Department. While he now knows, from experience, that war is no grand adventure, he's still just twenty-four or five once he's out of the military. He might not yet know how much boredom and report-writing is involved in law enforcement. Radio dramas and pulp stories make it sound a lot more fun than it is. From the perspective of police departments or federal agencies, he's not an enrolled member of a federally recoqnized tribe, no way to really tell from an application and his honourable discharge he's anything but Italian-American, of whom there are plenty in law enforcement. Plus, GED, A.A.S. degree, decorated former Army officer and inter-divisional boxing champion (that last counts more than all the rest), he's practically over-qualified for any law enforcement agency outside of the really big cities. True, no B.A. or law degree, so the FBI aren't interested, but anywhere without a degree prerequisite, he has a good chance. Indian Police were sometimes also Deputy US Marshals, so they could arrest anyone on reservation land, no doubt about jurisdiction, which would work out great. And, honestly, even if he does take part in setting up the Special Forces, I could imagine him doing so with a Reserve commission and moving back home and becoming an Indian Police officer and Deputy US Marshal. As long as he marries Vicki Hanson on time and takes over Manzano Gunsmithing in 1976, when Giancarlo died, the timeline is preserved. Well, he'd have to spend some time home, to take part in raising his boys, but if he's policing the local community, that doesn't sound too implausible.
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