High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The risk often isn't of dying it's of being crippled, maimed, or dismembered.

A party wizard recently crit failed an Iron Arm and their player was terrified for the IRL weeks of sessions until the end of combat which will decide how permanent it is (B422) ("can't we roll now to decide?"). : ) *


That said, I am struggling to find rules to help a (different) gold-era supers campaign to help super heroes-in-training each have options to "incapacitate" criminals they foil crimes of (nonsupers being even more fragile)... (e.g., to just "knock out" foes to tie up and leave for the police?) (the flavour text narrates a taking a sorcerer unconscious! (Supers p.5)).


*(exactly passed the HT roll so their arm was only crippled until the healer restored HP later that day, if you are curious. : ) )

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Eric Funk

A party wizard recently crit failed an Iron Arm and their player was terrified for the IRL weeks of sessions until the end of combat which will decide how permanent it is (B422) ("can't we roll now to decide?"). : )

What kind of combat situation calls for weeks of sessions? I've run what I thought were serious combats, which took up part or most of a session lasting four to five hours; I've never had one that ran over.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by whswhs

What kind of combat situation calls for weeks of sessions? I've run what I thought were serious combats, which took up part or most of a session lasting four to five hours; I've never had one that ran over.

Boarding a ship and either clearing all the spaces in it to rescue hostages/intended occult sacrifices and arrest or be forced to kill all the crew (modern cargo ship) or fighting a fierce boarding action through a crew of desperado cutthroats, until you kill their pirate captain, or he gallantly surrenders to you (High Medieval to Early Modern ship in the Mediterranean or Caribbean). Ships fought each other for hours in reality, and even if the melee of a boarding action rarely lasted more than half an hour, that can still take ages to play out.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by Eric Funk

That said, I am struggling to find rules to help a (different) gold-era supers campaign to help super heroes-in-training each have options to "incapacitate" criminals they foil crimes of (nonsupers being even more fragile)... (e.g., to just "knock out" foes to tie up and leave for the police?) (the flavour text narrates a taking a sorcerer unconscious! (Supers p.5)).

GURPS is a bit too realistic when it comes to rendering opponents unconscious without permanent harm. (Like I said previously, games which allow this can benefit from a dual hit point track - what Hero calls BODY and STUN.) But Choke Hold with the carotid option (Martial Arts, p. 69) is one traditional answer, and for golden era supers (and other pulp period stuff), the traditional cosh to the back of the head is very much in genre; see Action 3, p. 24, or Discworld, p. 183.

For powered supers, of course, an Alternate Ability variant of any attack can be an Affliction (Incapacitation, usually Paralysis, Sleep, or Unconsciousness).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Like I said previously, games which allow this can benefit from a dual hit point track - what Hero calls BODY and STUN.

Honestly, in cinematic genres all damage that isn't a Plot Point is pretty transient, so just giving accelerated recovery for all minor wounds isn't out of line (give everyone Regular or Fast Regeneration as long as HP >= 0; attacks intended to subdue won't reduce HP below 0 but have increased ability to knock unconscious).

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

GURPS is a bit too realistic when it comes to rendering opponents unconscious without permanent harm. (Like I said previously, games which allow this can benefit from a dual hit point track - what Hero calls BODY and STUN.) But Choke Hold with the carotid option (Martial Arts, p. 69) is one traditional answer, and for golden era supers (and other pulp period stuff), the traditional cosh to the back of the head is very much in genre; see Action 3, p. 24, or Discworld, p. 183.

For powered supers, of course, an Alternate Ability variant of any attack can be an Affliction (Incapacitation, usually Paralysis, Sleep, or Unconsciousness).

Hmm, technically that "Kayo" technique from Action3 /DW is a more variable version of

i Hit location rules from B399 (skull) -> x4 damage that exceeds DR
ii For beings with <15maxHP, "2" injury to the brain becomes 8, which exceeds maxHP/2 so it is a Major Wound. (B420)
iii Long story short they need to pass a HT-5 roll or be unconscious (B420) (technically a HT-10 roll, but failing by more than 5 means unconsciousness for 15min, B423)

I'll have to think about some way to "wear foes down". Maybe some system that "Temporarily" drains HP. (FP does not quite seem fair).

Thanks!

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Eric Funk

Hmm, technically that "Kayo" technique from Action3 /DW is a more variable version of

i Hit location rules from B399 (skull) -> x4 damage that exceeds DR
ii For beings with <15maxHP, "2" injury to the brain becomes 8, which exceeds maxHP/2 so it is a Major Wound. (B420)
iii Long story short they need to pass a HT-5 roll or be unconscious (B420) (technically a HT-10 roll, but failing by more than 5 means unconsciousness for 15min, B423)

I'll have to think about some way to "wear foes down". Maybe some system that "Temporarily" drains HP. (FP does not quite seem fair).

Thanks!

I dunno, why not drain FP?

In fact, I'll go one better: we've got TV Action Violence on BS417. Why not make antagonists use it?

(Also, ditch the restraint in the second paragraph except probably the final sentence. It's weird regardless. If somebody throws a car at your chest, it's rather missing the point of TV Action Violence for that to unavoidably turn you into a pulpy smear. If you must, you can describe the loss of FP and turn in some such cases as being struck instead of as desperate evasion.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, maybe not quite with BESM. If you want to play supers you're going to want to buy Absolute Power, which has the same underlying mechanics but customized for the genre, including higher top end abilities.

I don't own BESM 4 but BESM 3 handled supers just fine. I played in a game where the PCs were all Norse warriors summoned from Valhalla and was basically supers in all but name. Characters included a Valkrie, a massive were-bear and the like. Most of us would fit in just fine in a Thor or Avengers comic.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Hopkins Vioreo

Whenever I search for GURPS limitations, one key aspect keeps popping up: GURPS doesn't do High Power campaigns very well. I would like to know, from those who already attempted it:
1- Is it true?
2- If so, what exactly "breaks" within the system?
3- Are there any tips to ameliorate the problem?

One possible problem with high powered campaigns is if you start at normal power level (say 100-120 pts) but then give a lot of CP (10+ per session) and the campaign run for a long time. Then you end up at high power but didn't start there. But since its an incremental increase players are not necessarily going to develop equally. One might spend it all on broad skills or a few expensive powers. But another might just throw it all into Damage reduction and another all of it into "combat skills".

So you end up with an extreme disparity between "what is a fitting challenge for the group". To hurt one PC you need to be able to do 20+ dam per hit. To hit another you need to reliably give -8 to their defense. But the last two PC's are just going to die if you design a challenge that hits all the PCs equally.

Other gaming systems (especially those with levels), tend to force players to be more equal when it comes to combat.


This can also be a problem from the start of the session but here you have a more obvious chance to talk it over and design the PC's to be on the same level.

So we are back to: "the systems doesn't auto-balance. That's your job as the GM, and it takes some effort".

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Maz

One possible problem with high powered campaigns is if you start at normal power level (say 100-120 pts) but then give a lot of CP (10+ per session) and the campaign run for a long time. Then you end up at high power but didn't start there. But since it’s an incremental increase players are not necessarily going to develop equally. One might spend it all on broad skills or a few expensive powers. But another might just throw it all into Damage reduction and another all of it into "combat skills".

I’ve never come near to that. In my last GURPS session I gave all the characters 1 point for participation and 3 points for good role playing, and then gave one of them an extra point for solving a problem, for a total of 5. That’s more than I usually give. At that rate the issue is slower to arise, at least.

I have the impression that’s a more typical rate than 10/session.