08-27-2024, 03:40 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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A Tier-system for a DF setting
After a break due to Real Life Stuff, I'm back to working on my Oubliette setting for DF. One of the components of that is a Tier system, inspired in part by the tiers of gear (and enemies) in games like Diablo II. I'm trying to figure out appropriate pricing for increasing Tier, and as my enchantment system is going to be a modified version of GURPS Meta-Tech, that means I need character point values.
Briefly, there are 5 Tiers. Null Tier weapons and armor are basically available for free to adventurers (discussed in this thread, although the Tier names have changed since then - Tier 0 then is Null Tier now, while Tier 1 then is Tier 0 now). Tier 0 weapons and armor are generally the mundane ones, although a lot of magic items are also Tier 0, and all the characters are Tier 0 (although there are magic items that can boost your personal Tier). Tiers 1 through 3 are found on more advanced magic items. As for monsters, those in the uppermost levels of a dungeon are typically Null Tier (these also tend to make up the bulk of raiding parties, as Null Tier's can survive outside the dungeon longer than higher-Tier monsters), with Tier increasing the deeper you go (note most dungeons don't go deep enough for Tier 3; indeed, the bulk of dungeons don't get beyond Tier 1 before they are destroyed by adventurers, and many are destroyed while still at Tier 0). Tier influences the effectiveness of attacks and similar (as all Affliction-type effects are actually No Wounding Side Effects, this also means the Tier will influence how difficult they are to resist). Against a target who is wearing either no armor or armor that matches with their personal Tier, you subtract their Tier from that of your weapon (your personal Tier if attacking fully unarmed, the Tier of your armor if you're striking with it, such as for a kick with boots on) and consult the later table (which basically just adjusts things as per SSR). Null Tier is treated as Tier -2 when up against Tier 0, Tier -1 otherwise (meaning Tier 0 and Tier 1 gear are both equally effective). Null Tier monsters are also not terribly effective even when wielding higher-Tier weapons, giving an effective -1 to their weapon's Tier while wielding it (so a Null Tier with a Tier 0 sword would treat it as Tier -1). For foes wearing armor of a different Tier than their personal one, the Tier difference is calculated in reverse (Armor Tier minus Weapon Tier) and adjusts the value of the armor. Penetrating damage is modified based on the target's personal Tier. Code:
ΔTier Multiplier -4 x0.2 -3 x0.3 -2 x0.5 -1 x0.7 +0 x1 +1 x1.5 +2 x2 +3 x3 +4 x5 With that all out of the way... what's appropriate for pricing? We'll ignore Null Tier, at least for now, as the items are functionally free anyway and Null Tier monsters can't be PC's, Allies, or Enemies (actually monsters in general can't be any of these outside of specific campaign concepts, considering they're restricted to being in or near their dungeon of origin; Liminals, which are monsters that are free of the dungeon, certainly can be, but those are all Tier 0 anyway). For items that modify personal Tier (which would be the easiest to calculate for), you're essentially looking at Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction combined with an equal Damage Multiplier effect. The first we know the price of - it's essentially [25] per -1 SSR to damage - but what of the second? It's typically stated that defenses in GURPS cost around 3.5x as much as offenses, but I disagree. That's based on Innate Attack 1d [5] vs DR 1 [5], but at [5] that Innate Attack can only deal one of burning, crushing, or piercing damage, while at [5] that DR 1 defends against all of those, and every other damage type in the mix. Roughly speaking, an Innate Attack that can freely change to any type of damage is probably worth somewhere around [20] per 1d*. With that in mind, they're actually rather close in pricing** - DR 4 [20] vs Innate Attack (all) 3.5 [20] (in fact, before doing the analysis below I thought a fair price for IA (all) would be somewhere between [15] and [20], and DR 3.5 [17.5] is right smack-dab in the middle of those two). With that in mind, I'm thinking that, at least for the Tier system presented here, setting Damage Multiplier at the same price as equivalent IT:DR would be appropriate, for [50] per full +1 to Tier ([25] for the defense side and [25] for the offense side). An argument can be made that it should be higher, considering any innate DR the character has would also benefit, but I'm inclined to waive that - I don't think I'm going to allow for innate DR that gets much above DR 2 (an exception may be made for some Liminals, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it). So, with a price for a boost to Tier for the character established, how should this behave for gear? Meta-Tech has an optional rule that traits that apply to the item rather than to the character can be taken at 1/5th cost, for [10] per +1 Tier, but part of me feels that's a bit too low of a price. For an amulet that just grants the character some ability, where the Tier simply makes it less susceptible to being broken***, that's probably fine. But for weapons that cause more damage, and armor that has higher DR, that doesn't seem quite right. Maybe I should still charge full cost for the defense side and 1/5th for the offense side for armor, and reverse these for weapons? That would mean, while most gear only calls for [10] per +1 Tier, weapons and armor call for [30] each. Does that make sense? *Piercing throws things off by having 4 different sizes, but considering the use cases for things below Pi++ if you have access to Pi++ are rare, we'll only calculate it for Pi++. So this would be an Alternate Attack setup of burn ([5]), corr ([10]), cr ([5]), cut ([7]), fat ([10]), imp ([8]), pi++ ([8]), and tox ([4]). That's [1+10+1+1.4+2+1.6+1.6+0.8] = [19.4], rounding up to [20] - or [21] if you insist on rounding before adding them together. **As an aside unrelated to the Tier system, you could use this to argue for DR pricing against a particular threat to be the same as the base cost for that threat. So DR that only protects against Cutting damage would cost [7] per 1d protection, or [2] per DR 1. Just something to consider... ***I'm also considering having some enchantments have a minimum Tier. Something that lets you fly, for example, might be required to be Tier 1 or higher. I haven't yet made up my mind on that, however.
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08-28-2024, 08:52 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: A Tier-system for a DF setting
As a further note, I had initially intended for having a higher Tier than the target give the same effect against armor but only negate their IT:DR, plus add a little bonus damage (probably to the tune of +1 per die per Tier), but I fear that would be overly complicated at the table.
Essentially the original proposal would be to give the armor DR based on its Tier; currently I'm intending to have generic armor (that above Null Tier can be modified to weigh more and cost less - such as scale - or weigh less and cost more - such as plate) that has DR 2 for Light, DR 4 for Medium, and DR 6 for Heavy. Under the alternate build, these would be 1/2/3 for Null Tier, 2/4/6 for Tier 0, 3/6/9 for Tier 1, 4/8/12 for Tier 2, and 6/12/18 for Tier 3. Null Tier weapons would have AD (0.5), while Tier 0 would have no AD, Tier 1 would be (1.5), Tier 2 would be (2), and Tier 3 would be (3). Null Tier would have Vulnerability, x2 (Everything), Tier 0 would have no relevant trait, Tier 1 would have IT:DR x0.7 (Everything), Tier 2 would have IT:DR x0.5 (Everything), and Tier 3 would have IT:DR x0.3 (Everything). Null Tier weapons would deal half Injury to Tier 0 and lower (working out to x1 against other Null Tiers) and boost IT:DR a step for higher Tiers (x0.5 for 1, x0.3 for 2, x0.2 for 3). Tier 0 weapons would have no special effects, Tier 1 would negate 1 level of IT:DR, Tier 2 would negate 2 levels of IT:DR, and Tier 3 would negate 3 levels of IT:DR. Tier 1+ could either do the above (armor divisor and IT:DR reduction) or apply +Tier per die to damage, whichever gave a better result, with the option to mix-and-match for Tiers 2+ (Tier 3 could have AD (1.5) and reduce IT:DR by 1 step while also getting +2 per die to damage - or only have AD (1.5) and get +2 per die to initial damage, with a further +1 per die to penetrating damage if it gets through the armor). While it's a bit more powerful, I think what I wrote in the first post will be a lot easier in actual play, plus it's not quite as complicated to work out a roughly fair price for. I'm also considering having higher Tier enchantments (including those that require a certain Tier of item, if I go that route) have a prerequisite Quintessence value (from "The Fifth Attribute," Pyramid #3/120). Currently, I'm thinking a minimum of QN 3 for Tier 0, QN 6 for Tier 1, QN 12 for Tier 2, and QN 18 for Tier 3. Average QN for the general population is 5, while minimum QN for being an adventurer is 8 ("average" - or at least the default characters start at - is 10). This would mean most people can use Tier 0 enchantments but those in the general population that can use Tier 1 are a bit rarer (but hardly unheard-of; they'd be roughly as common as a person with IQ 12); those who can use Tier 2 and Tier 3 would be quite rare. All adventurers can use Tier 1 enchantments, and those with above-average QN can use Tier 2; only those with exceptional QN can use Tier 3. This also means a military equipping its troops with magical gear would generally be restricted to Tier 0 and the occasional Tier 1 enchantment. Something to consider, at least. As a final note, I initially planned for the Tiers to correspond to the materials the gear is made from. I may still go for that (and require Tier n materials for creating an item that boosts the character's Tier to n), although the MT guidelines won't be quite as useful there; I may opt to create some generic example items and see how the MT treatment of giving them higher Tier will increase the price and use that to determine a CF.
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dungen fantasy, meta-tech, powers |
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