Fleshing Out the Magic Systems For a Hidden Supernatural Game

[Kesendeja]

First a little something about the setting. It's going to be low key until its not. Right now the characters are still in the looking around phase. Trying to find proof of whats out there. Then comes the "****ing around" phase, and depending on there actions the "finding out" phase is either going to be post apocalypse hell on earth, or the cat's out of the bag and people stand a chance.

(Players are going to be responsible for stopping the apocalypse, not causing it)

Also admittedly I've been re-watching play throughs of various games and reading several comics as inspiration. (Examples: Devil May Cry, Ghostwire Tokyo, Supernatural (early seasons), Lucifer, Hellboy (Plot ideas only), Tomb Raider, Constantine etc...) Most have been toned down at present. Either the treats haven't increased to the point of being unmistakable, or the coverup is very good)

As the general rule I'm using Ritual Path Magic. Have book, cause chaos, pretty standard there.

But, there are other forms of magic out there, one's dependent on ancestry and secret knowledge. Those are the one(s) I'd like help with.

I don't really like the base magic system, but what I need is:

• Flexibility to reskin, rules don't need to change, just the spin on the appearance.
• Something that has spells that I don't have to make on the fly, As much as I love the White Wolf Mage magic style, my players do not. They like spell lists. (Most have a background in D&D)
• Rules that aren't overly complex, being able to hand over a couple of cheat sheets will make both sides of the table happier.
• Consistent rules to make creating spells a bit easier. They aren't stupid by any stretch of the imagination, but logical and consistent rules will make everybody happy.

ANY help will be appreciated. It's not going to come into play for a bit, but having some ideas will really help.

[johndallman]

Path/Book Magic from Thaumatology is worth a look. It does not have a design system, but its rituals are pretty flexible.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Path/Book Magic from Thaumatology is worth a look. It does not have a design system, but its rituals are pretty flexible.

To expand on this a bit, PBM is a framework as much as it is a system, with RPM being one of the systems created using PBM. There's also Incantation Magic from GURPS DF 19, which is closely related to RPM. At least two of the Thaumatology-based setting books use PBM styles: Age of Gold and Alchemical Baroque.

In other words, it's a great framework for creating new systems and styles.

[ericthered]

One thing I've found to make RPM more manageable is to take away the ability to improvise spells. You need a book to do it, and some research. This means spells tend to be created between sessions, not during them.

(My experience is with 2 hour play sessions though)

[Mr_Sandman]

I'll add my voice of support for Path/Book Magic. It's one of my favorites. It has a list of spells and there are a few more scattered around in other supplements. I think it's a very good fit for the tone of the properties mentioned in the OP. If you want to make it more distinct from Ritual Path Magic, use the effect shaping version.

Another approach would be to look at the Alternative Ritual Path Magic article in Pyramid #3/66 and use one of those variants. If you used the RPM rules but with Books instead of Paths, and effect shaping instead of energy accumulating, it would make for a very different flavor of making magic, that still ends up creating the same effects so it's easy to adjudicate magic vs. magic.

If you really like long spell lists, another approach could be to use the default magic system, but say that spells can only be cast using the Ceremonial Magic rules (Basic Set p.238 or Magic p.12). This does allow flashier magic than Path/Book, but slows down the casting and gives evil sorcerers a reason to gather cultists and henchpeople.

Originally Posted by ericthered

One thing I've found to make RPM more manageable is to take away the ability to improvise spells. You need a book to do it, and some research. This means spells tend to be created between sessions, not during them.

(My experience is with 2 hour play sessions though)

My tweaked version of Ritual Path Magic I hacked for a Dresden-verse campaign did essentially that. No improvising spells in the moment. A wizard can only cast a spell they know. They have to find a teacher or grimoire to learn a new spell from, or invent it themselves using the invention rules.

In theory, I like flexible magic systems that let a magic user define the effect they want to produce. In practice, I find they always slow things down in play as the player works everything out and force the GM make on-the-fly rulings.

[hal]

If you want, pick up a copy of GURPS VOODOO and use that. C.J. Carella authored that book, and if you want, pick up a copy of his EDEN STUDIO's produced WITCHCRAFT and ARMAGEDDON series books.

WITCHCRAFT by the way, is available for free from Drivethrurpgnow.com HERE.

the Unisystem is very much like GURPS in the sense that it is meant to be a point buy system and adaptable for any genre, but it didn't take off.

In a nutshell - the magic system is like the ritual path magic system from GURPS VOODOO, but takes it a step further where you need Essence (Essentially Mana) to cast spells. If you learn a path, you can cast any spell within that path, but the essence cost determines two things:

How long it takes to gather that energy determines how long it takes to cast the spell

The more energy expended in the spell itself, the more difficult it is to avoid repercussions with the spell getting out of control. In other words, you could cast a spell, and if it isn't properly grounded, it can trigger other unwanted effects. ;)

Is it relatively easily adapted to GURPS? Yes.

ARMAGEDDON's back story is by far, one of the best I've ever chanced upon for "Modern Fantasy" style campaigns. In a nutshell - it goes into why magic and belief in magic isn't more wide spread. A mysterious "organization" tends to destroy those who openly practice magic, or at the very least, discredit it so that the people who do practice it are deemed to be lunatics.

You would be remiss to not at least pick up WITCHCRAFT for the low low price of FREE, and if you're like me, avid collector of game systems for use in mining for ideas, the series of books will be worth your while.

I myself have been using the ARMAGEDDON based back story for all of my "Modern Fantasy" campaign, and one thing that my players have come to appreciate is that the very things that limit "Demons" in the campaign, also limit Angels. Condering that they are essentially the same "beast" - one who has fallen, the other who has not - makes some game sense.

As for why I suggested GURPS VOODOO over the more "Modern" versions of magic, is the original use of "Possession" in GURPS VOODOO is more "colorful" than the "build by points" Version of Possession. One player will NEVER go up against a Ghost based upon what I did to his character in a game session. He was fighting against the Ghost - and lost in a contest against possession. The Ghost had a bit of time to control his body, so it stepped on the gas pedal of the car the player character was in. Then it aimed directly at a bunch of kids playing on the street. Sadly, the colors of their skin and the colors of the player character's skin would make it seem to be a racially motivated attempt at murder - but the player was able to make a saving roll vs Will and take back control of his body. At the last moment, he swerved his car into a nearby tree instead. The resulting investigation by the local police made things VERY hot for the player characters. What was his defense going to be "The ghost made me do it?"

In any event - I wish you good luck with your campaign. I would love to be able to be a player in such a campaign. :)

Ah well, good luck. If you ever need any Kibbitzing help, let me know - I've a few books that I utilize for reference purposes in my games - including names of certain angelic and not so angelic aspects. There is also a book titled The Mythology of Supernatural by Nathan Robert Brown. You may also want to pick up a book titled "When God was a Woman" by Merlin Stone. Mind you, I'm not suggesting that you incorporate all of those things in your campaign - but reading those two books may well give you some ideas for use in - if not this campaign, than others into the future.

[The Colonel]

...just out of interest, if your players are coming from a D&D background, are they clear what sort of magic system you are planning?
If they're genre savvy, all well and good, but if they come expecting D&D style magic, they may be disappointed.

[Kesendeja]

Most hate the base D&D system, but want different things from the system I decide on for the game. One wants to be able to create his own spells, and the other just wants a spell list to chose from. I want something that doesn't need a calculator to use, and won't slow the game down to much.

I had considered a heavily modified Sorcery. I've got a bunch of spells from Enraged Eggplant's site, so I'd have spell lists for that one. But fixing the other parts of Sorcery were proving difficult for me.

Both have just told me to pick something and that they will deal with it. But I'd like to find something to fit all three perimeters.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kesendeja

Most hate the base D&D system, but want different things from the system I decide on for the game. One wants to be able to create his own spells, and the other just wants a spell list to chose from. I want something that doesn't need a calculator to use, and won't slow the game down to much.

I had considered a heavily modified Sorcery. I've got a bunch of spells from Enraged Eggplant's site, so I'd have spell lists for that one. But fixing the other parts of Sorcery were proving difficult for me.

Both have just told me to pick something and that they will deal with it. But I'd like to find something to fit all three perimeters.

I think the previously-suggested Incantation Magic comes closest. There's a Pyramid article (for RPM, but should work fine for Incantation as well) with a Limitation for the relevant traits that restricts characters to only being able to cast spells that they either have a grimoire for (and have to cast from said grimoire) or have the Spell Mastery Perk for (I think that's the name, it gives you a +2 to gather and cast the spell; IIRC Incantation Magic downgrades it a bit into a spell-specific Technique). So the player who just wants a spell list can take that Limitation and only use the spells from the book and/or those you construct for them (or they can even try their hand at constructing one for you) while the other doesn't take that Limitation and can improvise to the limits of their skill (and player imagination).

[Kesendeja]

Okay, I've got a second question. When the supernatural is revealed, there will be those who can take it a step further and cast from memory. Same system, or would you suggest a different one. It will require a second advantage to use anyway, so...