What skill(s) would best capture Logistics?

[Kromm]

Market Analysis exists anywhere things are traded and the trade in question can be analyzed as a thing in itself. The best examples are definitely modern bond, commodities, currency, derivatives, and stock markets, because those are inherently at least one step removed from goods – and sometimes several steps removed (e.g., you trade in the stocks of companies that deal in the goods or more commonly of companies that hold companies that deal in the goods, and maybe even in derivatives based on the stocks of companies that hold companies that deal in the goods) – so they're visible "things in themselves." That's why the skill description singles out those things. However, you can have Market Analysis anywhere trade itself is a trade. I mean, they had futures, banking, and triangular arbitrage in classical antiquity . . . Hammurabi felt the need to write laws about it.

Which said, it seems beside the point of logistics, which I'd agree comes closest to Administration. Historically, it was also seen as a branch of mathematics, so Mathematics (Logistics) would be about as sensible as Mathematics (Cryptology) or (Statistics). It wouldn't be wrong to coin an Expert Skill that stands in for all the parts of Accounting, Administration, Current Affairs, Geography, Market Analysis, Merchant, etc. that pertain to moving goods around and keeping track of them.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Yet Market Analysis shows up on templates in Banestorm, where I'm pretty sure there aren't many markets in financial instruments. I reckon it applies to markets in general, but financial instrument markets were very prominent in the early days of GURPS.

Well I think the description of Market Analysis works for things like the spice trade from India and such things. I do not feel that is a part of logistics, though it could certainly benefit from use of skilled logistics.
edit: Ninja'd by Kromm.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Market Analysis exists anywhere things are traded and the trade in question can be analyzed as a thing in itself. The best examples are definitely modern bond, commodities, currency, derivatives, and stock markets, because those are inherently at least one step removed from goods – and sometimes several steps removed (e.g., you trade in the stocks of companies that deal in the goods or more commonly of companies that hold companies that deal in the goods, and maybe even in derivatives based on the stocks of companies that hold companies that deal in the goods) – so they're visible "things in themselves." That's why the skill description singles out those things. However, you can have Market Analysis anywhere trade itself is a trade. I mean, they had futures, banking, and triangular arbitrage in classical antiquity . . . Hammurabi felt the need to write laws about it.

Which said, it seems beside the point of logistics, which I'd agree comes closest to Administration. Historically, it was also seen as a branch of mathematics, so Mathematics (Logistics) would be about as sensible as Mathematics (Cryptology) or (Statistics). It wouldn't be wrong to coin an Expert Skill that stands in for all the parts of Accounting, Administration, Current Affairs, Geography, Market Analysis, Merchant, etc. that pertain to moving goods around and keeping track of them.

One of the greatest logistical tools in the modern arsenal is simply Microsoft Excel or an equivalent spreadsheet, but really the theoretical underpinnings here are essentially a linear algebra problem trying to get absolute quantities and rates for goods on hand (a certain amount, and/or a certain amount per day in and out) balanced and "self-consistent" so that the right amount of stuff is being made, stored, shipped, moved, re-stored, and used. Ideally the minimal amount of stuff, and the minimal amount of time, etc.

You might also have different constraints (we only have three ships) and such.

But in short: Very, very, mathy. An Expert Skill and/or a Talent covering the breadth of "Logistician" would be appropriate here.

Like I can completely see - and have met and had lunch with - expert computational logistics planners who absolutely cannot and should not be allowed within speaking distance of other people. And expert administrators who are really good at getting all the forms filled out exactly as governments and accounting and permitting agencies (which is basically governments) want to see them, but couldn't do the same global optimization as the math-fu person. And I've also known lots of folks - Seagate was good at hiring and training these people - who could do it all.

[RGTraynor]

Pretty easy. Character in my campaign is married to the former head of the national riverine force, who's a logistics expert. Just a simple Expert Skill, which she's picked up herself, and is using to plan the logistics for a military excursion due to play out this afternoon.

[Michael Thayne]

I once spent some time digging around my GURPS library to answer the question "what skills do you need to be really, really good at being in charge of stuff?" and ended up concluding the answer was "mostly Administration". GURPS really assigns it to a quite broad array of tasks, including being a quartermaster according to Mass Combat.

I'm somewhat dubious of the value of Merchant to wartime military logistics. It might be used for peacetime procurement, but war has a tendency to put such a strain on a society's resources that to get the supplies you need you tend to have governments dictating prices at which suppliers must sell or (especially when in enemy territory) just taking the stuff they need without paying for it. And the challenge is not so much haggling as figuring out how much grain you need to take from this town to get to the next town you can take a bunch of grain from.

[Polydamas]

What is the canonical skill for small-scale scrounging up materials by trading and wheeling and dealing? Scrounging is more for searching the ruins or the garage sale.

This is important for small-scale logistics.

I would use skills like Soldier, Metallurgy, and Agriculture to decide whether someone with Administration was prepared to run a specific type of organization. At TL 7+, specialties of Mathematics sound like complimentary skills, at TL 1+ Accounting is useful.

[pawsplay]

I think the primary skill is Administration. Civilians also have Merchant, and military operations require Strategy. If you are involved in any kind of requisitions, some Finance would be advisable. Advanced applications likely require Mathematics (Logistics); this would be the skill needed to ship a million barrels of oil over a war-torn road system.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

What is the canonical skill for small-scale scrounging up materials by trading and wheeling and dealing? Scrounging is more for searching the ruins or the garage sale.

Scrounging does get used for searching the ruins but I think it was originally intended to be quite broad? The text of the skill description says:

This is the ability to find, salvage, or improvise useful items that others can’t locate. Each attempt takes an hour. You do not necessarily steal your booty; you just locate it – somehow – and then acquire it by any means necessary.

This quotes says you don't necessarily steal it, but it doesn't say you never steal it, heavily implying Scrounging sometimes involves theft. Given that, and the "by any means necessary" provision, I think it's reasonable to assume wheeling and dealing is sometimes involved. I tend to read it as the "acquire stuff offscreen" skill.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

What is the canonical skill for small-scale scrounging up materials by trading and wheeling and dealing? Scrounging is more for searching the ruins or the garage sale.

.

Disagreed.

Scrounging in the ruins might discover useful items but it would probably be by finding miscellaneous junk that could be made valuable to you or finding soemone else to whom it was valauble and trading it for what you need.. Just searching the ruins is Search.

Scrounging is _exactly_ the skill of small scale informal trading, wheeling and dealing to get what you want or need.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

What is the canonical skill for small-scale scrounging up materials by trading and wheeling and dealing?

The art of the "three way finagle" and forms of barter as practiced by supply sergeants is just another application of Merchant skill.

Finding useful "unofficial" trade goods, dreaming up substitutes for goods you can't get and knowing where to find any sort of good is Scrounging, however.

The Merchant part comes when you have to acquire the goods without resorting to theft or when you want someone to deliver goods you've located by scrounging rather than having to go and get them yourself.

Depending on the situation, skills such as Area Knowledge, Savoir Faire (Military), Soldier and Streetwise might be Complementary Skills to both Merchant and Scrounging.