[Thaumatology] Powers as (Path/Book) Magic

[Prince Charon]

Basically a reversal of Magic as Powers, looking specifically at the Path/Book system, as versions thereof can be worked out to fit a fairly wide range of settings and abilities (not that other systems couldn't be, it's just that they're all broad enough that each would need a different thread, and possibly more than one; likewise, some specific characters or groups are likely to be better fits for some systems than for others). The discussion in an older thread on GURPS Thaumatology: Age of Gold has a much more setting-specific version of this idea; also, Monsters as Magicians... or vice versa is likewise a narrower version, though in a different way. Of course, as noted in the latter, some fit this system better than others, and some only fit as having Gadgets or abilities that are the results of magic, rather than being ritual magicians themselves. (So if the clarification is needed, I'm not saying that certain characters or groups must be Path/Book magicians, I'm speculating on how they could be for games that use it.) While the examples below are from comic books, later posts may wander further afield.

Many heroes and villains in the Golden Age of comics (and some more recently) made use of strange drugs or similar, and so (for purposes of this thread) could be adapted as Ritual Alchemists - using Path or Book styles with Alchemy or Herb Lore as the core skill. Some Gadgeteer characters might use a form of ritual technomagic (aka 'technurgy' - a portmanteau of 'technological thaumaturgy,' as well as a form of the Greek words for 'skill-working'), having Path or Book styles with core skills like 'Engineer (Orgone),' 'Fortune-Telling (Technomancy),' or technology-themed forms of Ritual Magic or Symbol Drawing. Most Ritual Alchemists and Ritual Technurges wouldn't even need Path/Book Adept, or would only need one level (either Time or Space, as dropping the Material requirement usually contradicts the paradigm). For less technical characters, limited Path/Book Adept could work, as does just having a single-Book style that fits the character, as long as the Book can be justified in-story. Various perks and such could be used to round things out; a lot ought to have a Rules Exemption perk to allow more than one charm or other Conditional Effect per ritual.

Some characters, like Doctor Strange or John Constantine, are a bit too easy: they're magic-users in their own canon, and even shown to use rituals on occasion, so it's just a question of specifics, like what style or styles (it's plausible that both of them might know more than one, or at least have several Magical Style Familiarity perks), whether one is an Adept or not (Constantine maybe, Strange definitely), and whether they use Effect Shaping or Energy Accumulating; if applying the latter to Dr. Strange, he'd not only need Adept 4 (Time 2), he'd also need a pretty high Energy Reserve if you're taking what's on the page at all close to literally.

The Golden Age Aquaman and Black Condor actually make more sense as magic-users than their canon origins: Aquaman (which was literally the name his father gave him) was taught to breathe water and such by his mad scientist father, who found what may have been the lost city of Atlantis (apparently abandoned, since he was able to set up a home in one of the palaces) and learned the secrets thereof, while Black Condor was raised by wild birds, and learned to fly (without actual wings, though he occasionally wore a wing-like cape for show) from studying them. Yeah. (DC did a much later retcon of Black Condor's power being due to exposure to a meteorite, but the original didn't have that.) This Black Condor also has a fairly versatile 'black ray' gun with no explanation given for how he got it, which I don't see listed for later versions. Clearly, both of them are Path/Book Adepts, to limited degrees. Aquaman's version is probably something like One Book Only: Book of Atlantean Secrets. How limited Black Condor's Adept advantage is depends on what exactly the 'black ray gun' is, since it could be anything from a just prop he uses (but doesn't need to produce the effects), to actually being a technofetish Gadget.

A trickier adaptation is Rex 'Tick-Tock' Tyler, the Golden Age Hourman. While theoretically a scientist, he is also an example of 'comic book science is basically magic.' Rex is one of the many 'one weird trick' supers in the Golden Age, being a seemingly normal (if highly- and widely-skilled) biochemist, who invented a 'miraculous vitamin' that he calls 'Miraclo.' In terms of Path/Book Magic, he's either a capable but fairly limited Ritual Alchemist (he is occasionally depicted working on other stuff that may or may not be fantastical), or a biochemist with something like a Charm/Craft Secret perk for Miraclo, but who cannot otherwise use alchemy. (In post-Crisis retcons, the Miraclo seems to build up in the body, able to be 'reactivated' by other means such as black light or Autohypnosis; Doylistly, this is because by then, people were worried enough about drug addiction in children that they didn't want to show a hero popping pills to power up, but Watsonianly, magic can have strange long-term effects, and a magician learning to change how he performs a ritual that he's used a lot is an interesting possibility.)

On the other hand, Dr. Hormone, a mad scientist and war criminal 'hero' from Dell Publishing, is a really blatant alchemist, with a nearly paper-thin claim to being a scientist. In brief, he gives people various 'hormones' that have sudden, bizarre effects like making both old people and children become physically age 25, adding animal features to humans, enhancing strength, and so on. A lot of these appear to be permanent. The style of Ritual Alchemy he uses would need to be designed, and I don't want to try to read enough of his exploits to do so even if I could find them, but someone else might.

While the Golden Age Sandman is mostly known for one invention, his sleep-gas gun, he made a number of other devices, many of which are supersciencey enough to justify calling him a technomage. He regularly carried a wire-harpoon ('wirepoon') gun, invented a 'truth-gas' for use in his gas gun, and upgraded his gas masks and car fairly often; later on, he invented a Silicoid Gun that let him apparently Create and Control silicoids like sand, concrete, and glass, as well as once exploding and having a horrific effect on Sandy the Golden Boy (a really bad critical spell failure). So, while the inventions he's more known for suggest Ritual Alchemy, looking at his work in detail suggests that he's a Ritual Engineer who also knows some alchemy. He doesn't show any hints that I noticed of being an Adept, working all his inventions in prepared laboratories over periods of minutes to hours or days. His precognitive nightmares are more likely to be a power than a ritual he does (though they could be a permanent result of a critical failure, or a curse that happens to be useful as a side effect).


Thoughts?

EDIT: a couple of links that might be needed - Doctor Strange and John Constantine

[pawsplay]

I guess it partly comes down to whether you believe you can learn to Aquaman.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

I guess it partly comes down to whether you believe you can learn to Aquaman.

To a degree, yes. Alternatively, it depends on how you think you can learn to Aquaman. Turning water-breathing into a Cinematic skill based on some sort of Atlantean martial art is one possibility, though not one that fits this thread well.

On another note, something related to this thread that I forgot about earlier: Expanding on the Magic of Stories, because there are a range of comics that the concept from that Pyramid article could fit, or be expended into. It would probably require creating new Archetypes or modifying existing ones, but GURPS Supers has a range of templates to use for inspiration.

[Inky]

I'm not sure about any of the following.

I did, as it happens, have a crack at statting Henry Kuttner's Hogben Family a while ago, they're kind of superheroes and certainly from the right era (it's a waste of time really, because they can do largely whatever the plot requires them to be able to do, but you can get somewhere in the general area of something that fits what they do a lot of the time), and I did in fact resort to just representing most of their powers as RPM with Ritual Adept and Magery 5, crossing out the Paths of Magic, Spirit and Undead, writing a few notes on the others and writing 'is actually psionics' on it. I can post it if anyone likes.

Phantasm's 'Marvel' thread has write-ups for Dr Strange and some of his hangers-on using what looks like Realm Magic, I don't know whether you've looked at those.

A lot of those Golden Age superhero comics and pulp stories seem to have some kind of 'mind over matter' thing (sometimes martial-arts and/or mysterious-Eastern-magic-inspired) going on at the back of their minds, some unspoken and some in so many words, so in some cases it is magic, albeit not in so many words, which might be one reason it fits well.

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Black Condor

None of this makes any sense :-D 'He's a magician' might make a lot of it easier.

[namada]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Thoughts?...

With regards to this thread, unfortunately only one...

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Some characters, like ...John Constantine...

John Constantine sounds so familiar, yet I'm drawing a total blank on who that is - can you enlighten me?

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by namada

With regards to this thread, unfortunately only one...
John Constantine sounds so familiar, yet I'm drawing a total blank on who that is - can you enlighten me?

DC Comics character, mainly Alan Moore creation IIRC.
Blonde Scouser in a trenchcoat - wizard and supernatural con-artist, like a wretched version of Harry Dresden in some ways.

Main character of the Hellblazer series.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

DC Comics character, mainly Alan Moore creation IIRC.
Blonde Scouser in a trenchcoat - wizard and supernatural con-artist, like a wretched version of Harry Dresden in some ways.

Main character of the Hellblazer series.

The 2005 movie Constantine starring Keanu Reeves was (maybe)based on that. I mostly note it as one of those adapted movies where the lead actor was too lazy to dye his hair. <shrug> Maybe Keanu wouldn't have looked good all bleached out(think Billy Idol). They may finally be making a sequel.

More recently (2014 maybe) Constantine had a single season TV series with an actor known as "Matt Ryan". He dyed his hair and came from the correct side of the Atlantic. Ryan and his version of Constantine were rescued from cancellation limbo by the Legends of Tomorrow TV series where he was seen for most of the last 5(?) seasons. Bizarrely they wrote Constantine out for the last season and kept the actor for another character.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The 2005 movie Constantine starring Keanu Reeves was (maybe)based on that. I mostly note it as one of those adapted movies where the lead actor was too lazy to dye his hair. <shrug> Maybe Keanu wouldn't have looked good all bleached out(think Billy Idol). They may finally be making a sequel.

More recently (2014 maybe) Constantine had a single season TV series with an actor known as "Matt Ryan". He dyed his hair and came from the correct side of the Atlantic. Ryan and his version of Constantine were rescued from cancellation limbo by the Legends of Tomorrow TV series where he was seen for most of the last 5(?) seasons. Bizarrely they wrote Constantine out for the last season and kept the actor for another character.

One of the many film adaptions I like to imagine never happened.

Never saw the TV show, but I'm guessing it can't be anything like as bad as the crimes they committed against The Dresden Files.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

.

Never saw the TV show, but I'm guessing it can't be anything like as bad as the crimes they committed against The Dresden Files.

<shrug> The hockey stick had some charm. Of course, even that was totally unrelated to anything Butcher wrote except that Harry blasted Things with implements made out of wood. I'm not sure we ever saw anything get blasted with the hockey stick. They were operating on a pretty much zero special effects budget.

I can't say how close the Constantine show was to the comics in terms of plot arc but the character was pretty close.

[pawsplay]

The Constantine movie was weird, because they moved the whole thing from London to LA and added in some voodoo/hoodoo elements. But I feel like they did a good job of capturing the spirit of the character.