Book/Path Magic

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

A very mechanical way to create new spells and particularly whatever spells you need to solve The Problem Of The Day just leads to RPM, which we already have.

I'd probably try and be careful about even accepting new Rituals. A magic system that does some things well, some things poorly and some not at all has character and players would have to think about how they were going to use it. A magic system that will do anything as log as you document that you've jumped through all the hoops is kind of boring to me.

Yeah, I think I agree. I have never used RPM, and don't feel even the impulse to take it out for a test drive. On the other hand, I used Path/Book magic as the principal magic system for my recent campaign Tapestry, and liked it a lot. And I didn't find it hard to make up new rituals that seemed to fit in with the existing ones.

[namada]

Originally Posted by Refplace

So are you both actually opposed to any design system? Or ok with one as long as its not going to take to much space?

Well, Fred Brackin's answer (below) is pretty much what I was going to reply with, so just add a +1 on that.

If this is intended to be a standalone product/pdf, then it's likely something I'd not be interested in purchasing is all, so you can pretty much ignore me because it seems you do have a number of folks very interested in seeing this design system.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

A very mechanical way to create new spells and particularly whatever spells you need to solve The Problem Of The Day just leads to RPM, which we already have.

I'd probably try and be careful about even accepting new Rituals. A magic system that does some things well, some things poorly and some not at all has character and players would have to think about how they were going to use it. A magic system that will do anything as log as you document that you've jumped through all the hoops is kind of boring to me.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Refplace

So are you both actually opposed to any design system? Or ok with one as long as its not going to take to much space?

Well, speaking sight-unseen, I think I'd probably dislike an attempt to systematize Path/Book ritual design. On the other hand, design considerations and stylistic guidance for different subgenres/worlds would not go astray.

[Kage2020]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Well, speaking sight-unseen, I think I'd probably dislike an attempt to systematize Path/Book ritual design. On the other hand, design considerations and stylistic guidance for different subgenres/worlds would not go astray.

On the other hand, I would want to see something different.

Don't get me wrong, I like RPM even if I couldn't make it do what I wanted as written. It almost felt like I needed some form of intermediary to make it applicable to a more bog-standard fantasy setting.

I don't think that more options are a bad thing. Indeed, one of the reasons that I turned off GURPS for a number of years was because, as written, it told me that I could only do it this or that way. Thaumatology: Sorcery fixed a lot of that for me in my current project (Earthdawn / Shadowrun) but I still have some desire to tinker around with Path-based magic because of how crappy those settings treated the subject.

[namada]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Well, speaking sight-unseen, I think I'd probably dislike an attempt to systematize Path/Book ritual design. On the other hand, design considerations and stylistic guidance for different subgenres/worlds would not go astray.

Again, so well said that I just must +1 that...lol

Originally Posted by Kage2020

...It almost felt like I needed some form of intermediary to make it applicable to a more bog-standard fantasy setting.

Why would you try to use RPM or any other system other than GUPRS Magic, or DFRPG Spells if you're trying to do "bog-standard" fantasy? That doesn't make sense to me, so please explain...

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Kage2020

It almost felt like I needed some form of intermediary to make it applicable to a more bog-standard fantasy setting.

Have you looked into DF 19 Incantation Magic? (I know, it's basically RPM from a slightly different angle, but that slight difference might make it fit better into your cranium.)

Originally Posted by namada

Why would you try to use RPM or any other system other than GUPRS Magic, or DFRPG Spells if you're trying to do "bog-standard" fantasy? That doesn't make sense to me, so please explain...

If by "bog standard" he menas D&Desque, then neither GURPS Magic or DFRPG Spells (Magic 4.5 ed) fit the "Vancien mold".

Incantation, and RPM to a slightly lesser extent, can very easily fit the "so many spell castings per day" mold.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by namada

Why would you try to use RPM or any other system other than GUPRS Magic, or DFRPG Spells if you're trying to do "bog-standard" fantasy? That doesn't make sense to me, so please explain...

Depends on what is meant by "bog standard". I can't think of many fantasy settings from literature or film for which GURPS or any other "typical" RPG magic system works very well, while I can think of a number for which Path/Book, RPM, and other systems would handle nicely.

If by "bog standard" you mean "dungeon fantasy" I agree with your point, but not your description. Dungeon fantasy is a bizarre subgenre almost unique to RPGs and media deliberately emulating them.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Depends on what is meant by "bog standard". I can't think of many fantasy settings from literature or film for which GURPS or any other "typical" RPG magic system works very well, while I can think of a number for which Path/Book, RPM, and other systems would handle nicely.

When I ran my campaign Manse, one of its big inspirations was the Abhorsen novels, with their contrast between charter magic and free magic. I found the magic system of Big Eyes Small Mouth, with its contrast of Magic and Dynamic Sorcery, a decent fit to that.

I got some use out of BESM for a campaign set in Middle-Earth, but I had to make up a new Attribute, Making, to cover all the magic that was done in Arda by singing songs, hammering out swords, spinning rope, and so on.

Standard GURPS magic doesn't seem like a good fit to any fantasy series I've read; on one hand it's too much in the idiom of D&D magic, and on the other hand its conceptual structure is too much derived from twentieth century science.

[Anaraxes]

Any system that's a good fit to one fantasy series probably isn't a good fit to another other than by chance. Harry Potter swish-and-flick magic isn't Mistborn metal-fueled superpowers isn't Eddings "The Will and the Word" isn't Tolkien magic-by-crafting isn't Dresdenverse (which really has at least two systems going on). There's not going to be One Magic System To Rule Them All.

If fitting a particular IP is a goal, that's what Thaumatology is for. Also if you have a particular idea of how magic should work for your setting, because magic usually has a strong influence on the field of a magic setting. The worldbuilder will need to tweak and adjust and shape the magic system to make it what they want.

I've wondered at times if there's any RPG out there that GURPS hasn't already, um, been inspired by, somewhere in the collection of 4e magic systems. Any candidates for a system that's a significant conceptual distance from the GURPS systems that already exist?

[apoc527]

I would personally be very interested in getting more Path/Book magic design guidelines. I find I really like what I see, but there's not enough of it. Surely, what's in Thaumatology isn't intended to be a "complete system"!