Skills for Underground Construction

[Prince Charon]

From dugout shelters, to WWI trench lines and Viet Cong tunnel networks, to the mansion-like Great Smials of Tolkien's Took family, holes in the ground (or the sides of hills) to live or work in are things that may be important for PCs and NPCs in role-playing games. How are they made (game-mechanically), though?

There does not appear to be a 'Digging' skill in GUPS, which on the one hand makes sense as it's 'unskilled labour,' but on the other hand, it seems to me like some sort of HT-based 'digging' skill would make sense for much the same reasons that Hiking and Running are HT-based. Basic Entrenching is probably covered by Soldier, but you probably need something like Professional Skill: Miner to know where and how to shore up tunnels so that they don't collapse on you (and indeed, miners have created some pretty elaborate places deep below the grass). The trench lines of late-WWI were quite elaborate, with shelves and bed-nooks dug into the sides of trenches, and even large subsurface rooms for storage, meetings, kitchens, and officers' quarters. When the guns weren't too loud, soldiers might have imagined themselves as being part of some strange community who simply chose to live underground (it is very much to Tolkien's credit that he was able to make something so beautiful out of the trauma the war gave him).

Designing underground dwellings probably involves something like Architecture (Underground), though there may be a better name for the specialization, and for magical folk who live under the hill, perhaps some form of Symbol Drawing (Sacred Architecture). Artist (Sculpting) is likely involved in decoration, but might also be used to make stone furniture.

What other skills, techniques, or similar might be involved? How might this work, if for example the PCs were members of a halfling or dwarf community settling in a new location?

[RGTraynor]

Professional Skill (Mining) is certainly how I'd do it, and seems something of a no-brainer for what is after all a highly technical job.

For military trenchwork, though, Engineer (Siege) sounds about right.

[Fred Brackin]

There are Engineeer specializations that cover these things. P.190 gives you (Combat) which covers trenches and (Mining) for "underground structures".

[The Colonel]

You can probably do basic entrenchment with Soldier if you've been in any army that experienced WW1 as it's taught in basic by most of them (although you might need to be qualified infantry before it becomes a no-roll task). Engineer (Combat) sounds about right for more extensive works, although anyone who understands groundwork (mining or civils) should probably be able to figure it out easily enough.

If you really want to drill down (ahem) you'll probably have gangs of labourers (with or without Digging), possibly lead by those with Professional Skill: Mining and the project overseen by one or more Engineers. Fantasy dwarves probably have all three skills and so work a lot more efficiently - hobbit builders probably take a lot of tea breaks.

[malloyd]

All of the skills for building structures seem to be somewhat missing. What do you roll against to build something above ground? I guess if I had to pick something RAW for the underground structure, I'd use the same one I'd probably pick for that - either Masonry or Architecture.

I do think there is good case to be made that was the *intent* of Architecture (it being a craft and not the design skill the description makes it sound like justifying why it's easier than Engineer, and why it slots into the Mechanic/Repair skill default slot for Engineer (Civil)).

Both Masonry and Architecture are a good choices too because both are almost always already on the list of recommended skills for Dwarves, which is probably the place most gamers are likely to be looking for and not finding a building construction or mining skill.

I do think Mining/TL would be a reasonable enough addition if you are willing to go with something entirely new. It's actually kind of odd nobody caught it when looking over Engineer, given that Engineer (Mining)'s lack of a craft default sort of stands out. Though admittedly it's not the [only] one lacking one.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

You can probably do basic entrenchment with Soldier if you've been in any army that experienced WW1 as it's taught in basic by most of them (although you might need to be qualified infantry before it becomes a no-roll task). Engineer (Combat) sounds about right for more extensive works, although anyone who understands groundwork (mining or civils) should probably be able to figure it out easily enough.

OK, now I'm imagining some fellow who inherited some land with hills and no house on it after WWI, and deciding to get a few of his friends together and seriously build the home that they joked about in the trenches.

Originally Posted by The Colonel

If you really want to drill down (ahem) you'll probably have gangs of labourers (with or without Digging), possibly lead by those with Professional Skill: Mining and the project overseen by one or more Engineers. Fantasy dwarves probably have all three skills and so work a lot more efficiently - hobbit builders probably take a lot of tea breaks.

Also more meal breaks than the dwarves would.

Originally Posted by malloyd

All of the skills for building structures seem to be somewhat missing. What do you roll against to build something above ground? I guess if I had to pick something RAW for the underground structure, I'd use the same one I'd probably pick for that - either Masonry or Architecture.

I would guess that Masonry is the intended skill for building normal aboveground structures, along with Carpentry if the structure is largely or entirely wooden. I think you're right about Architecture being the Craft skill for Civil Engineering, though if one of the devs notices and weighs in, we'll know for sure. The image in my head right now is that the architect uses both skills to design a new structure, Engineer to make sure that it's structurally sound and Architecture to decide what it looks like within those constraints. An architect without an appropriate Engineer skill (or who fails the roll badly) can still design buildings, but if they try to get too fancy without having a skilled Engineer look over the plans before construction, they can end up with a lethal mess. This seems like a good representation of how that happened many times in real life.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by malloyd

All of the skills for building structures seem to be somewhat missing. What do you roll against to build something above ground?

Architecture and Engineer(Civil) for good design. various craft skills (Carpentry, Electrician, Machinist, Masonry, Smith) for the specialized trades. Using Smith for welding structural steel seems a little odd, but doable. A modern building has several specialties of Machinist (plumbing, HVAC, elevators, etc.).

Note that Low Tech Companion 3 covers much of this discussion, including skills for building trades.

[whswhs]

Do you own GURPS Underground Adventures? It discusses some aspects of this, in terms of perks and skills. Driving (Construction Equipment), Engineer (Civil, Combat, or Mining), Forced Entry [specifically the skill for breaking up hard soil or rock efficiently], Masonry, Mechanic, and Navigation (Underground) all have applications, and there are several techniques for Masonry. And it seems generally like the logical place to start.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Do you own GURPS Underground Adventures? It discusses some aspects of this, in terms of perks and skills. Driving (Construction Equipment), Engineer (Civil, Combat, or Mining), Forced Entry [specifically the skill for breaking up hard soil or rock efficiently], Masonry, Mechanic, and Navigation (Underground) all have applications, and there are several techniques for Masonry. And it seems generally like the logical place to start.

I am pretty sure that I don't have it (I just checked), and being unemployed, am not likely to get it soon. I do have Low-Tech Companion 3, though.

[Refplace]

Engineer (Mining) p. B190 covers designing underground structures.
Engineer (Civil) p. B190 would be important for infrastructure and the building of an underground community. It defaults from Architecture at -6.
Architecture I think would help in making the buildings more pleasing and functional, wheras Engineer (Mining) is probably more spartan and focusing on stability.


Digging has no skill in GURPS Basic but good rules on pages B350-351.
Carpentry and Masonry seem to be the primary building and construction rather than design skills here. Professional skills are good for the bulk of the labor force.
For ideas on construction times and more depth in general, Low-Tech and iots companions are going to be helpful, as is Underground Adventures,