(spaceships) SM based Hull dST/HP

[jacobmuller]

I have the awareness of the average brick.
I've just realised that the values are off by 1 SM, ie, SM +5 is given as 30ton, dST 20 (pg SS9), but if I used the values in Basic Set Campaigns (pg b558) , it should be dST 15.
Can anyone tell me, has this oddity been clarified, please?
TQ

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I have the awareness of the average brick.
I've just realised that the values are off by 1 SM, ie, SM +5 is given as 30ton, dST 20 (pg SS), but if I used the values in Basic Set Campaigns (pg b558) , it should be dST 15.
Can anyone tell me, has this oddity been clarified, please?
TQ

Spaceships appears to use roughly 6x(Weight)^(1/3), right between the 4x of Unliving and 8x of Homogenous. I don't know if it's ever been outright stated why this is the case, however. My assumption has always been it's a result of compartmentalization/redundancy (seeing as dST is typically just a measurement of dHP).

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I have the awareness of the average brick.
I've just realised that the values are off by 1 SM, ie, SM +5 is given as 30ton, dST 20 (pg SS9), but if I used the values in Basic Set Campaigns (pg b558) , it should be dST 15.
Can anyone tell me, has this oddity been clarified, please?
TQ

I don't recall if it has, but I've always just assumed that it's considered to be due to compartmentalisation, redundancies, etc. From a game design perspective, it's probably to help beef ships up a bit so they don't die (quite) as fast when hit by large guns and hyper-velocity missiles.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Can anyone tell me, has this oddity been clarified, please?
TQ

I've never even seen it mentioned. The number or persons who use the formulas in Campaigns to produce numbers for Spaceship-sized objects may be fairly low.

[seasalt]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I don't recall if it has, but I've always just assumed that it's considered to be due to compartmentalisation, redundancies, etc. From a game design perspective, it's probably to help beef ships up a bit so they don't die (quite) as fast when hit by large guns and hyper-velocity missiles.

Which it doesn't do a great job of. The basics of the combat and construction systems in Spaceships are pretty good, but they need massive alteration to deal with spaceships having the durability of soap bubbles relative to how much damage weapons do. I'm planning on doing a post on a system I came up with (in fact it's why I registered a few days ago), but the basics are "quadruple all armor values and make them semi-ablative, step down all weapon damage by one size/caliber (two for lasers), get rid of the /2 armor pen modifier for missiles and shells, change proximity detonations to deal 1/10th cutting damage instead of full damage, and apply a 0.1 wounding modifier to any excess damage after destroying an armor section".

[maximara]

Originally Posted by seasalt

Which it doesn't do a great job of. The basics of the combat and construction systems in Spaceships are pretty good, but they need massive alteration to deal with spaceships having the durability of soap bubbles relative to how much damage weapons do.

I think that is the by product of GURPS trying to be "realistic" it is a lot easier to do damage than to protect from it. As Issac Arthur likes to say "there is no such thing as an unarmed spaceship". F = ma rules supreme and you can really wreck someone's day with projectile weapons.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by maximara

I think that is the by product of GURPS trying to be "realistic" it is a lot easier to do damage than to protect from it. As Issac Arthur likes to say "there is no such thing as an unarmed spaceship". F = ma rules supreme and you can really wreck someone's day with projectile weapons.

All true.

In one of the playtests I completely destroyed a SM+14 Gibralter Battlestation and all it took was a 16cm missile launched from a platform going 70 miles per second. I didn't launch just one missile of course but it only took one hit.

My ideas for dealing with this centered around improved anti-missile defenses possibly including layers of anti-missile drones. Fiddling with armor values is probably only nibbling around the edges.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

My ideas for dealing with this centered around improved anti-missile defenses possibly including layers of anti-missile drones. Fiddling with armor values is probably only nibbling around the edges.

The anti missile missile is a workable idea.

Of course, you could then go the full Rocky and Bullwinkle route and introduce the anti anti missile missile missile.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

All true.

In one of the playtests I completely destroyed a SM+14 Gibralter Battlestation and all it took was a 16cm missile launched from a platform going 70 miles per second. I didn't launch just one missile of course but it only took one hit.

My ideas for dealing with this centered around improved anti-missile defenses possibly including layers of anti-missile drones. Fiddling with armor values is probably only nibbling around the edges.

It looks like it gets better at TL10+ when improved lasers come on line, but you still need boatloads of dedicated AMS lasers to handle it, but my playtesting is limited.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

It looks like it gets better at TL10+ when improved lasers come on line, but you still need boatloads of dedicated AMS lasers to handle it, but my playtesting is limited.

Oh, this was at TL10 and during the test for the mapped system so all the station's weapons opened up at maximum range. Main Batteries, missiles, everything and not just the Tertiary Battery.