Does the first point in Mental Strength get you anything?

[ravenfish]

While building some characters based on the styles in Dungeon Magic, I noticed that several of the styles require a point in Mental Strength, and it occurred to me to wonder whether that point actually gets the stylist anything. Two or four points in Mental Strength effectively buys +1 or +2 to Will rolls against exotic abilities while aware- not a bad buy-, but one point in the skill buys +0 to those rolls- a very bad buy-, and, as far as I can tell, does nothing else. (If you have a talent that gives a bonus to Mental Strength, then a single point in the skill effectively lets you add that talent to said rolls- useful-, but assume for the sake of argument that the character has no such talent.) Of course, having spent the first point, you can then spend a second and get an actual benefit, but am I missing anything?

[Rolando]

No, you are missing nothing.

Some skills and abilities need more than 1 point of investment to give you something special.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Rolando

Some skills and abilities need more than 1 point of investment to give you something special.

But (obviously excluding abilities with a minimum cost of greater than one point), I can't think of others off-hand. The question of "what does one point in brawling get me?" is a perennial one on these boards, but it has the good answer of "access to techniques that don't have a DX default". As far as I can tell, the single point in Mental Strength does absolutely nothing.

[Rolando]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

But (obviously excluding abilities with a minimum cost of greater than one point), I can't think of others off-hand. The question of "what does one point in brawling get me?" is a perennial one on these boards, but it has the good answer of "access to techniques that don't have a DX default". As far as I can tell, the single point in Mental Strength does absolutely nothing.

It do help you get to the point that it do something.

And as you say, it have some interaction with Talents and anything that affect skills and not raw Will or secondary attributes.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

As far as I can tell, the single point in Mental Strength does absolutely nothing.

It gives you a chance to put in more points. Some points at character creation are spent with the plan of 'I will spend earned CP here and it will be very useful.'

In some games it is better to have even a minimal amount of a skill at the beginning because finding a teacher and the time to learn a skill may not be practical.

[Rupert]

While I can't think of anything in the RAW that'd make it worth the point, in and of itself, if a GM came up with a power that could only be resisted by Mental Strength, or some use of the skill that required the skill (note that it has no defaults), then that point would be useful.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Rupert

While I can't think of anything in the RAW that'd make it worth the point, in and of itself, if a GM came up with a power that could only be resisted by Mental Strength, or some use of the skill that required the skill (note that it has no defaults), then that point would be useful.

I've done just that. The setting had a lot of supernatural powers that were resisted by mental strength alone, with will only applying at -5. It was a great way to differentiate between civilians and warriors.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

While building some characters based on the styles in Dungeon Magic, I noticed that several of the styles require a point in Mental Strength, and it occurred to me to wonder whether that point actually gets the stylist anything.

Maybe. There are interpretations of the skill where you can float it to other attributes to resist "mental" stuff that is resistable with a different trait. But mostly not.

But historically it's part of the mess of mental resistance skills and advantages created for separate books and complicated by the 3e insistence advantages were not learnable traits. The whole mess of them are inconsistent with each other and really would've been better rolled into Resistant.

[Balor Patch]

Mental Strength is an good buy for a DF Martial Artist with Chi Talent. Not otherwise.

[Sorenant]

+2 to resist mental assaults for 4 points is a steal...
But it's awkward that Will+0 costs 1 point with no real benefit and Will+>2 costs 4 points, making Will or Mind Shield a better deal if available (assuming no talent).