Build-A-Setting #1: Orcs, Dwarves, and Elves in the 21st Century

[Not]

Isn't this just Shadowrun?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Not

Isn't this just Shadowrun?

No, the OP specified an important difference.

In SR Elves, dwarves and orcs started appearing in a society very much like ours after its' point of historical divegence.

The OP wanted a society (apparently as much like ours as possible) where elves, dwarves and orcs have existed since the beginning.

This is made far more difficult by not specifying the basic nature or at least the racial templates of the races in question

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This is made far more difficult by not specifying the basic nature or at least the racial templates of the races in question

Right. My Viking Orcs and someone else's Mongol Orcs may never meet. One person's haughty Tolkien-esque immortal high elves (ala Galadriel) may not match another person's Keebler-esque elves or Rowling's house elves. And Tolkien's hardy Dwarves are not the same as the Brothers Grimm's Dwarfs. The Norse Alfar are not the same as the Celtic fae, though they share a lot of traits yet both can be called "elves". Are the Elves immortal, simply very long lived, or just enjoying human lifespans? Do Dwarf women have beards? Did H. floresiensis (the Hobbits) survive to the present? Are there regional variants? Can Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, or others interbreed with H. sapiens sapiens (anatomically modern humans)? Are such hybrids sterile or interfertile with any of the progenitor species/subspecies?

And of course we don't know who else are running around. Are centaurs roaming the plains? Are there any kind of Kobold: intelligent humanoid crafters whose work is second (or superior!) to Dwarves, blue skinned humanoid idiots (like Yrth), yapping dogs hiding in caves, or little lizard kobolds who have deluded themselves into thinking they're descended from dragons? Minotaurs? Satyrs? Lizardfolk? Winged Folk?

And speaking of which, are there dragons? If so, what form do those dragons take? The Chinese dragons are wingless serpents that still fly, while European dragons have wings. Are dragons the size of houses or house cats? Are they cuddly adorable forest kittens? The form - or forms - of dragons can influence the history of all these races.



And of course, are we looking at a "start from prehistory and work our way forward" or "start with the 'now' and work backwards" worldbuilding scenario.

[FF_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

No, the OP specified an important difference.

In SR Elves, dwarves and orcs started appearing in a society very much like ours after its' point of historical divegence.

The OP wanted a society (apparently as much like ours as possible) where elves, dwarves and orcs have existed since the beginning.

This is made far more difficult by not specifying the basic nature or at least the racial templates of the races in question

That's fair. But, in this situation I've got to ask for a "fill in the gaps" because, frankly, I just don't know what would be the best fit. I'm going with a default of your typical, Tolkien-esque, D&D-esque races - but there's no specific set-in-stone lore for them. Right now, the races in question are simply trope elves, dwarves, and orcs - and right now, their nature is left to the mercy of the rabbit hole.

[FF_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

And of course we don't know who else are running around. Are centaurs roaming the plains? Are there any kind of Kobold: intelligent humanoid crafters whose work is second (or superior!) to Dwarves, blue skinned humanoid idiots (like Yrth), yapping dogs hiding in caves, or little lizard kobolds who have deluded themselves into thinking they're descended from dragons? Minotaurs? Satyrs? Lizardfolk? Winged Folk?

Honestly? Quite possibly all or any of those. I'd like to vie on the side of "quite probably any of those things exist" and explore the possibilities at this point of the development.

And of course, are we looking at a "start from prehistory and work our way forward" or "start with the 'now' and work backwards" worldbuilding scenario.

Best bet: Start from the present and work backwards, adapting history to end up at present. Of course, that also means building off of some assumptions about the present.

[Shuckster]

you could walk back to early history then establish a timeline

Like, lets talk where on our planet dwarves would hale from. We know dwarves mine stuff right? Well lets look at where the mining was done historically.
For example in the bronze age all technology was powered by tin and copper which had to be mined and transported.
Tin came from places in the west like Spain and England and in the East from places like Pakistan and both flowed toward places like in the middle east like Cyprus where copper was mined, so perhaps Bronze age Dwarves lived in these places during the bronze age.
During the iron age some of the best iron ore was common in the south east of Europe (so places like Italy and southwest of Italy) and and in the mountains of India, so perhaps after the bronze age collapsed the Dwarves set up shop in these rich iron deposits and funded that era.
Coal is needed to combine with iron to make steel, so perhaps areas of large coal deposits would also explain Dwarven migration.

If there was a specific race of people who were doing most of the mining and metallurgy than that affects where other metahumans fit in significantly, since all privative technology revolved around metal this either makes dwarves in the ancient world profoundly wealthy (and therefor exceptionally prime targets for attack), or simply the best at mining, not the only race to do so.

Some parts of europe actually traded for iron ore of higher quality from other countries despite having their own available so its possible that a similar setup happened with dwarves. Where humans might have a silk road, bronze age dwarves had a tin trail, this trade route would have been from england through Europe to the middle east. The human trade routes might be from Asia through the middle east towards Europe.

We notice everybody meets in the middle east north of Africa, and yeah, thats where quite a lot of empires were in our world so that makes sense.

[FF_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Shuckster

you could walk back to early history then establish a timeline

Like, lets talk where on our planet dwarves would hale from. We know dwarves mine stuff right? Well lets look at where the mining was done historically.
For example in the bronze age all technology was powered by tin and copper which had to be mined and transported.
Tin came from places in the west like Spain and England and in the East from places like Pakistan and both flowed toward places like in the middle east like Cyprus where copper was mined, so perhaps Bronze age Dwarves lived in these places during the bronze age.
During the iron age some of the best iron ore was common in the south east of Europe (so places like Italy and southwest of Italy) and and in the mountains of India, so perhaps after the bronze age collapsed the Dwarves set up shop in these rich iron deposits and funded that era.
Coal is needed to combine with iron to make steel, so perhaps areas of large coal deposits would also explain Dwarven migration.

If there was a specific race of people who were doing most of the mining and metallurgy than that affects where other metahumans fit in significantly, since all privative technology revolved around metal this either makes dwarves in the ancient world profoundly wealthy (and therefor exceptionally prime targets for attack), or simply the best at mining, not the only race to do so.

Some parts of europe actually traded for iron ore of higher quality from other countries despite having their own available so its possible that a similar setup happened with dwarves. Where humans might have a silk road, bronze age dwarves had a tin trail, this trade route would have been from england through Europe to the middle east. The human trade routes might be from Asia through the middle east towards Europe.

We notice everybody meets in the middle east north of Africa, and yeah, thats where quite a lot of empires were in our world so that makes sense.

I think a characterestic that stands out from most other primary metahumans is they live and operate often exclusively and always advantageously underground. Dwarves would be likely to have underground or mountainous communities - and trade routes would be just as likely never see the light of day inbetween Point A and Point B. It's also likely they would be highly territorial around their underground passageways and other trade secrets.

[Shuckster]

Originally Posted by FF_Ninja

I think a characterestic that stands out from most other primary metahumans is they live and operate often exclusively and always advantageously underground. Dwarves would be likely to have underground or mountainous communities - and trade routes would be just as likely never see the light of day inbetween Point A and Point B. It's also likely they would be highly territorial around their underground passageways and other trade secrets.

Ohh I like that because one of the significant factors in the real life bronze age collapse was an increase in seismic activity, perhaps that collapsed some of the trade tunnels and cut off the supply of metals to the wider world above and caused the collapse.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by FF_Ninja

I wonder if they have any rivals in the trade, either present or ancient?

"The orcs, it was said, made no beautiful things, but many clever ones."

I'm probably mangling the quote, but it's at least close to something Tolkien wrote.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The OP wanted a society (apparently as much like ours as possible) where elves, dwarves and orcs have existed since the beginning.

This is made far more difficult by not specifying the basic nature or at least the racial templates of the races in question

Even if you stick to tropes there is still a large range. "Barbarian" Orcs and Roman Orcs could constantly fight for example. Or the Germanic tribes that gave Rome so many headaches are mainly made up of elves.

As I mentioned before then you have the issue of just what is an "elf"? Does it include some of the Faerie? If so England may be their main power base back in Roman times.

Also Dwarves and Elves are generally regarded as far longer lived than humans. If they get into positions of power in human cultures you could have a single ruler for centuries rather than dynasties.

Imagine if Ramses was an elf and they ruled for 1,000 years. Heck, if we go with D&D's high elves you could have a ruler who has reigned for 2,000 years.