Pentagram Spell Questions

[InexplicableVic]

Relevant to GURPS Magic and DFRPG Spells--I think the description is identical. Without further ado, if someone is trying to conceal the Pentagram from detection, and/or protect the Pentagram from being destroyed?

1. Relevant Info: It is a "star-shaped figure drawn on the ground," and if part of it is "cut or erased, the power is lost until you rejoin it," which merely requires "a piece of chalk and time." Physical attacks can injure them, but not done by magical creatures.
2. Covering it with stone: Could one protect a Pentagram by, for example, using Create Earth to cover it and then Earth to Stone to create a stone "lip" covering it? This presumably could cause problems, since there's nothing to stop the magical creature from harming the stone above the Pentagram itself, which in turn could destroy the Pentagram. So maybe that's not worth it. Same thing, I suppose, with covering it with stone blocks or such.
3. Digging down a bit and covering it with stone flush to the ground: What if you used Shape Earth to dig a Pentagram about an inch or so into the ground, and then filled that over and made it stone with Earth to Stone? That at least would probably work for a period of time until the creature within the Pentagram (or unable to cross the Pentagram) figures it out and then starts to try smashing the stone to hopefully break the Pentagram. Or maybe it just doesn't work--shaping the earth is going to mess up the Pentagram because it just can't be done in such a way where it won't break it.
4. Drawing it in a trench with nothing covering it: Maybe the best way is to Shape Earth in the shape of the Pentagram about 6" deep, and then trace the pentagram and cast the spell within that "trench" that makes it harder to destroy.

Thoughts on these? How would you adjudicate them as a GM? If you know you're going to fight a demon or a golem or some other magical creature and can prepare, does it make sense to do this in addition to drawing the Pentagram? Or might it be a good way to keep a magical creature "locked away" in a room or something by making a pentagram large enough to block the doorway preventing it from exiting? Would these ideas work? Or is it trying to be "too clever"? Seems to me if the magical creature has nonmagical creatures as minions, these would protect the Pentagram from damage by those.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by InexplicableVic

.

One of the ways I've seen for temporaily breaking a Pentagram is to create or move into position a "bridge" over the actual inscribed Pentagram. That would affect everything under 1 and 2.

3 could be bridged by filing in one section of trench and making your bridge that way.

Out of things that I think might work I'd suggest making a slab of Essential Stone (3x as tough as regular stone) and having your Pentagram permanently inscibed in that. Very difficult to affect with medieval non-magical abilities. It could still be bridged.

As a perversely difficult suggestion you have the whole Pentagram Enchanted to be permanently Invisible. Mundanes already can't see most of the effects of the Pentagram but if the Big Bad can't tell they to destroy those markings on the floor it will at least delay matters sunstantially.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Mundanes already can't see most of the effects of the Pentagram but if the Big Bad can't tell they to destroy those markings on the floor it will at least delay matters sunstantially.

seems like you could say "just wash these few hexes with a mop", you wouldn't need to see specifically where a line is drawn if you use AE

[InexplicableVic]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

One of the ways I've seen for temporaily breaking a Pentagram is to create or move into position a "bridge" over the actual inscribed Pentagram. That would affect everything under 1 and 2.

3 could be bridged by filing in one section of trench and making your bridge that way.

I feel like a bridge will not work, since a magical creature cannot even throw anything into the Pentagram, suggesting that the protection extends upwards from the circle on the ground. In other words, it's not like the creature can hop over it and get in, so how could it create a bridge and move it into position to cross over? Even if a nonmagical creature put the bridge in place, I don't get the sense that the bridge actually breaks the Pentagram--to do that, you must break the actual inscription.

[Rolando]

The pentagram spell is kind of a metaphysical construct, it is a barrier and protect the drawing from tampering by magical creatures.

But you have to decide how it works on your world.

I personally thing it should be visible at at the surface of the floor or ground to work, any physical matter covering it will stop the pentagram, but even that is not completely right. As the description says, only by cutting the circle (erasing a bit of drawing for example) break the pentagram temporarily.

So, as a GM I would say that beside interrupting the circle covering it with something tangible can bridge the barrier (even if the description doesn't say so) but this bridge will not happen accidentally, so in a crumpling temple the pentagram will not be covered by accidental ruble falling, unless the ground breaks the pentagram will be fine. Also this bridge can not be put there by any magical means or creature. Also this bridge must be very substantial, so not just a piece of cloth, but something like a stone slab that is wide enough to allow the creature trying to cross the pentagram to pass easily.

You have to decide how these magical barriers work in your campaign.

But it is magic, so there may be a lot of variation, so in the full moon or with blood pentagrams may be harder to erase even by physical, mundane, creatures.

The most basic function is that they must be visible. they may be hidden in plain sight in patterns in the floor decoration but must not be covered.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Plane

seems like you could say "just wash these few hexes with a mop", you wouldn't need to see specifically where a line is drawn if you use AE

Only temporary Pentagrams that are not expected to require defensive measures will be marked with chalk or even paint.

I'd permanently etch my Pentagrams into stone surfaces and then inlay them with silver till they were flush with the floor.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by InexplicableVic

I feel like a bridge will not work, since a magical creature cannot even throw anything into the Pentagram, suggesting that the protection extends upwards from the circle on the ground. In other words, it's not like the creature can hop over it and get in, so how could it create a bridge and move it into position to cross over? Even if a nonmagical creature put the bridge in place,

<shrug> Magic is a matter of symbolism and intent. If you create a foot path over the Pentagram you've created a symbol of crossing the Pentagram and obviously intend for someone (or thing) to do so.

A view where your interpretation is the case is a very scientific sort of one. The Pentagram is a sort of force field and the inscription is the force field generator.

I've seen both but still wouldn't allow anyone to pave over the inscription and have it still work.