Very variant spell magic

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

One thing you’re forgetting: most items are only useable by mages, and that includes healing items. Well... mages or in some cases physicians of exceptional or even extraordinary skill.

Well, then it comes down to how common Magery is. Unless mages are extremely rare, I suspect the magic healer is still going to make more profit and impact by making healing wands.

Originally Posted by Whitewings

As for Halt Aging, someone who wants to create such an item needs at least two exceptionally demanding skills at 15+, Enchant and Halt Aging, which is master level, and at least nine other skills (Scroll and the eight other healing spells) to a level of reasonable competence. Add to the that the need for a fairly rare aptitude (Magery 2) and you have a meaningful barrier to entry.

If magic items are the primary means by which magic is done (as you stated in post #1), and most magic items were created by the end user (as you stated in post #23), this means most practicing mages have at least two exceptionally demanding skills at 15+ (Enchant and whatever spell(s) they primarily use), along with all the prerequisite spells (which needn't be at any level of competence, just whatever they get to by investing [1], unless your setting follows different rules than the default in this regard). So, the Magery 2 part of the character may be exceptional and rare amongst mages, but the rest is clearly the norm for mages in your setting.

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Varyon

If magic items are the primary means by which magic is done (as you stated in post #1), and most magic items were created by the end user (as you stated in post #23), this means most practicing mages have at least two exceptionally demanding skills at 15+ (Enchant and whatever spell(s) they primarily use), along with all the prerequisite spells (which needn't be at any level of competence, just whatever they get to by investing [1], unless your setting follows different rules than the default in this regard). So, the Magery 2 part of the character may be exceptional and rare amongst mages, but the rest is clearly the norm for mages in your setting.

I'm not speaking of the commonality of potential Halt Aging item creators among mages, but of their commonality among the populace as a whole. Will Halt Aging items exist? Of course! Will they be cheap and common? Probably not.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

HI've only said that the supply of Halt Aging items is likely to be smaller than the demand for various reasons addressed in other posts.

The supplly will not _remain_ smaller than the demand over any long period. Or at least not to the same exent. High demand and low supply encourages producers to exploit that demand.

If it simply is not possible to mett the demand (for Halt Aging or any pother hogh ep item) it's probably because this world is limited in magic rather than just highly variant.

If the only thing enchnting is used for is to produce those "This item enables you to cast spell x" that's just adding a barrier to casting spell x even at 100 pts/day. The reduction to 100pts/day makes high cost/permanent benefit magic items much more attractive than ."casts spell x" items.

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The supplly will not _remain_ smaller than the demand over any long period. Or at least not to the same exent. High demand and low supply encourages producers to exploit that demand.

If it simply is not possible to meet the demand (for Halt Aging or any other high end item) it's probably because this world is limited in magic rather than just highly variant.

There are many durable items in the real world that are not produced in quantities sufficient to fully satisfy demand. Not every mage will have the skills, and time, and inclination to create Halt Aging rings on a large scale. Most healers will choose to put their time into creating and using tools for healing, treating actual injuries and illnesses. Other mages will have no interest in healing magic; they're simply not interested in pursuing that field.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

T. Most healers will choose to put their time into creating and using tools for healing, treating actual injuries and illnesses. Other mages will have no interest in healing magic; they're simply not interested in pursuing that field.

I will not guess how old you are but I'm 61 and have a whole box of perscriptions that treat things that aging causes and/or makes worse.

That first healer mage whose body starts making "Snap! Crackle! Pop!" noises when he gets up in the morning is going to decide that aging is a thing that should be prevented.

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I will not guess how old you are but I'm 61 and have a whole box of perscriptions that treat things that aging causes and/or makes worse.

That first healer mage whose body starts making "Snap! Crackle! Pop!" noises when he gets up in the morning is going to decide that aging is a thing that should be prevented.

Let's get some numbers in here. Assuming TL4: most mages earn Comfortable livings, $1600 per month. So a Halt Aging item costs 3.3 * $1600, or $5280, right? Wrong. Enchantment is a gruelling process, with no days off, so the cost goes up. I'll assume a 25% increase to compensate for that, which brings the cost to $6600, and to quote GURPS Magic, "kingdoms have been toppled for possession of such things," so the market price might well be much higher.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

"kingdoms have been toppled for possession of such things," so the market price might well be much higher.

This is a desired conclusion, which is fine. We're just pointing out that the setting parameters as described so far do not actually lead to that conclusion. There are lots of ways to deal with the discrepancy (including just ignoring it, always a popular option when it comes to magic, though more problematic if your players are the sort to ask annoying questions rather than just run with the setting's genre conventions).

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

This is a desired conclusion, which is fine. We're just pointing out that the setting parameters as described so far do not actually lead to that conclusion. There are lots of ways to deal with the discrepancy (including just ignoring it, always a popular option when it comes to magic, though more problematic if your players are the sort to ask annoying questions rather than just run with the setting's genre conventions).

I'd treat it as hyperbole. The main point is that such things will be high demand, low supply, which means expensive and by no means universal.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

Let's get some numbers in here. Assuming TL4: most mages earn Comfortable livings, $1600 per month. So a Halt Aging item costs 3.3 * $1600, or $5280, right? Wrong. Enchantment is a gruelling process, with no days off, so the cost goes up. I'll assume a 25% increase to compensate for that, which brings the cost to $6600, and to quote GURPS Magic, "kingdoms have been toppled for possession of such things," so the market price might well be much higher.

That implies that, while a "typical" mage earns $1600 per month, an enchanter would earn $2000 per month. Now, one who knows how to make a Ring of Halt Aging might instead be more inclined to make Wands of Minor Healing (which a quick lookup of some online resources indicates requires 600 energy, or 6 days of enchanting), simply because 100 days of enchanting in a row is more grueling than 6 days of it, so may charge more than just that 25% markup. So maybe he wants to not simply be (slightly more) Comfortable, but Filthy Rich. Assuming he makes 3 of those rings each year (taking about 2 months off each year), he needs to sell them for $320,000 each. That's pricey, but well affordable for the elite, so he'd have no issue finding a buyer. On the enchanter's end, given a "fair" value for a VH skill (which I'm assuming Halt Aging is) at 15 is around $144,000 per year at TL 4*, I'd say the enchanter is being more than fairly compensated for the additional requirements (additional skill - Enchant - at 15, appropriate prerequisite spells known, Magery 2, and need to work uninterrupted for 100 days at a time).

*As I noted before, skill 12 in an Average skill is good for Average wage, and every +1 to skill or to difficulty is +1 SSR to wages. Skill 15 in a VH skill is therefore +5 SSR (+3 for skill level, +2 for skill difficulty), or x15 to wages. Average yearly wage for TL 4 is 800*12 = 9,600, and x15 to that is $144,000, as opposed to the $960,000 yearly wage for Filthy Rich.

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Varyon

That implies that, while a "typical" mage earns $1600 per month, an enchanter would earn $2000 per month.

That surcharge only applies to longer projects, more than a week or two. Shorter ones, like the Minor Healing wand, allow breaks between. To be honest, I'm not even sure what's in dispute at this point.