Very variant spell magic

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Varyon

So, you essentially want casting to be difficult, but creating items that can themselves cast spells to be easy (relative to the default, anyway). The next question then is how you want skill to come into play - is anyone who picks up a given wand* of fireball going to be equally skilled in casting that spell (skill in using the cast fireball is going to be dependent on Innate Attack), or do they need to have their own skill with using it?

If it's the former, you may want to have enchantment roughly follow the default rules (but allow it to go faster and/or be cheaper), but only allow enchanting (or make non-enchanting markedly more difficult). Characters can still learn spells from other colleges, they just can't cast any (so can only use for enchanting). I'd probably price Magery as One College Only - or maybe halfway between that and full-blown Magery, considering you can still learn other college spells and get the Magery bonus, you just can't cast them. You may want to reduce the difficulty for unusable spells - this will make it easier for your enchanters to know several spells to enchant into items. This puts all the complexity on the enchanters, as the end users can just pick up any wand they meet the prerequisite for and go to town (provided they also have the relevant use skill - Broadsword for a Flaming Weapon sword, Innate Attack for a Wand of Fireball, etc). "Golf Bags of Holding" may be common, with a combat "mage" having several different wands for dealing with various situations (Fireball, Stone Missile, Sunbolt, etc).

If it's the latter, things are a bit more complex. I'd probably make most spells easier to learn, and give a discount to Magery as you're dependent on having a specific wand for each spell (somewhere between -20% and -50%, perhaps). This makes the end user have to deal with complexity (enchanter still has to), as he or she needs to both have an appropriate wand and know how to cast the spell. This will result in more focused combat mages. Which approach appeals more to you?

*I'll note I'm using "wand" as a generic term for your spellcasting items - they could be an amulet, a ring, a sword, a quiver... whatever is appropriate.

I'm currently inclined to the first. I'm thinking of Magery being normally One College (Enchantment). Some mages are Ceremonial Magic Only with Solitary Ceremonial, but ceremonies are long; seconds become minutes, minutes become hours. Casting times using an item are normal. The problem then becomes how to bring the time for enchanting down to something more reasonable. I'm currently considering one hour per point for Slow and Sure; Quick and Dirty is fine as-is.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

I'm currently inclined to the first. I'm thinking of Magery being normally One College (Enchantment). Some mages are Ceremonial Magic Only with Solitary Ceremonial, but ceremonies are long; seconds become minutes, minutes become hours. Casting times using an item are normal. The problem then becomes how to bring the time for enchanting down to something more reasonable. I'm currently considering one hour per point for Slow and Sure; Quick and Dirty is fine as-is.

Sounds good - and I do like the idea of "wild" casting still being possible but simply taking markedly longer. As for enchantment times, consider treating it like any other form of crafting, using the rules from LTC3. You could still have Quick and Dirty be faster, if you want to maintain the cost discount for enchantments that fall under the Q&D threshold.

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Sounds good - and I do like the idea of "wild" casting still being possible but simply taking markedly longer. As for enchantment times, consider treating it like any other form of crafting, using the rules from LTC3. You could still have Quick and Dirty be faster, if you want to maintain the cost discount for enchantments that fall under the Q&D threshold.

LTC? I'm not familiar with that one.

Edit: Never mind, GURPS Low-Tech

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

I'm currently inclined to the first. I'm thinking of Magery being normally One College (Enchantment). Some mages are Ceremonial Magic Only with Solitary Ceremonial, but ceremonies are long; seconds become minutes, minutes become hours. Casting times using an item are normal. The problem then becomes how to bring the time for enchanting down to something more reasonable. I'm currently considering one hour per point for Slow and Sure; Quick and Dirty is fine as-is.

The thing is Magery 0 itself must be limited otherwise all the spells not requiring magery are accessible per Partial Limited Magery

Also I think you mean Magery (Enchantment only) rather than One College (Enchantment) as the later would limited to just spells of the Enchantment College for anything requiring Magery 1+

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

LTC? I'm not familiar with that one.

Edit: Never mind, GURPS Low-Tech

Sorry, LTC3 is the abbreviation for GURPS Low Tech Companion 3: Daily Life and Economics. In that, crafting costs are broken up into materials and labor. Now, that has some (largely hidden) assumptions about how much of the work is done by low-skill apprentices, normal-skill journeymen, and high-skill masters that may not apply here, so you might want to just use straight labor rates rather than those adjusted for how detailed the work is. For example, let's say a $1000 enchantment doesn't require any additional materials, and you have your TL3 enchanters making around the same amount as a Bureaucrat (Wealthy/Status 2). That's around $3600 per month, or around $18 per hour. That $1000 enchantment will take (rounding up) 56 mage-hours, and at 8 hours per day that means 7 mage-days of enchanting.

Naturally, you'll have to decide a) what an appropriate wage for an enchanter is and b) how much you want to charge per point of energy. Personally, given the high skills required, I'd be inclined to give enchanters a high wage*, but note that makes it harder to justify an enchanter adventurer.

*My general rule of thumb, based roughly on the professions from LTC3, is that skill 12 in an Average skill is enough for a Normal Job (supports Status 0). Each +1 to skill - or skill difficulty - is +1 step on the Size and Speed/Range table (x1.5, x2, x3, x5, etc) to monthly wage, and requiring an additional skill will shift things upward as well. This may end up making enchanters paid arguably too well, however.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

Well, mostly the first. Most magicians work magic by creating objects that cast the spell in question; anyone can use them, except for the many that are mage-only. Being able to just cast a spell is pretty rare. I haven't decided about the spells of the enchantment college yet.

If you make Enchantment-Only Magery (Thaumatology, p. 24) the default kind, and relatively common, that will mean there are plenty of people who can do enchantments.

If you then change the rate of Slow and Sure enchantment from the usual one point per day to something faster, such as Magery level points per day, that makes enchantments substantially easier and thus cheaper.

[Whitewings]

I've decided to change the prerequisites for Enchant to Scroll and any five other spells. There's no deep reason for this beyond wanting specialist mages to be a viable option and considering 84 CP in spells (assuming IQ 12, Magery 2 to be typical for the mage population as a whole) a quite sufficient barrier to entry (seriously, that's about eight and a half years of full-time study). Also, S&S takes 1 day per 100 points. So our conjectural average mage with Ignite, Seek, Create, Extinguish and Shape Fire will need just over two weeks to make the needed tools (I'd allow "modular" items, like a bracelet into which charms are inserted if the base item is first enchanted with Staff).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

Also, S&S takes 1 day per 100 points. ).

Oooh! 100 days to Halt Aging! :)

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Oooh! 100 days to Halt Aging! :)

Not counting the time needed to find an item with that spell on it, or the time needed to become that good at healing. And of course, the demand for such a thing would send the price skyrocketing.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

Not counting the time needed to find an item with that spell on it, or the time needed to become that good at healing. And of course, the demand for such a thing would send the price skyrocketing.

Ao there are no books to study from? There won't be any common magic if there aren't.

Halt Aging also only needs prereqs of 8 Healing spells and I've always assumed it was commonly learned by mages.

Also note that there are _many_ items that are very desirable but seldom seen due to high numbers of pts required to Enchant them i.e. ST +5 for 7500 enrgy.

If you hate the spell maybe you can do something with the Magery 2 prereq but in te standard system any Enchanter needs that anyway.

If what you really want is a setting where everyone uses Wands of Extinguish Fire instead of buckets of water you may not be there yet.

A posible alternative is to Enchant from Raw Magic Store from Thaumatology. the short version is that you get 100 pts for Enchanting for every 5 pts you spend and your supply recharges on a schedule set by the GM. This might make items of c. 500 energy cost (or whatever limit you set for Raw Magic) common but larger ones still rare.