[RPM] Storing power

[The Colonel]

Thematically I like the idea of forcing a bound spirit to store power, sort of like a honey ant. Probably more a sorcery than a shaman thing to do though as I could see very few spirits enjoying being used like that...

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Thematically I like the idea of forcing a bound spirit to store power, sort of like a honey ant. Probably more a sorcery than a shaman thing to do though as I could see very few spirits enjoying being used like that...

A spirit may be fine with a symbiotic arrangement - the mage feeds it plenty of energy, and the spirit uses some for its own needs/desires while the rest is available for the mage to tap into when needed. Of course, if the mage treats it as just being a (perhaps-leaky) mana battery, it may get fed up with the arrangement in short order, but so long as it's treated more like a partner, I'd imagine things would work out. I think there's a way to build a Familiar with a Mana Reserve that is freely available to its master, but I'm not certain where that's located.

[AlexanderHowl]

With RPM, it would likely be Magery (Accessibility, Granted by Familiar, -40%) [6/level], granting three extra ER, one extra conditional spell, and +1 skill maximum per level. For a majority of characters, I would also suggest Ritual Adept (Accessibility, Granted by Familiar, -40%) [24]. For a familiar spirit trapped in an animal body, it would probably involve Ally (Familiar; 50%; 15-; Minion, +50%; Special Abilities, +50%; Summonable, +100%) [18], but it would pay for itself with the reduction in cost to Magery 1+ and Ritual Adept.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Thematically I like the idea of forcing a bound spirit to store power, sort of like a honey ant. Probably more a sorcery than a shaman thing to do though as I could see very few spirits enjoying being used like that...

For something like that you'd need a Lesser Control Spirit for most spirits and then a reaction roll. Success would let the spirit "hold" extra energy equal to it's HT + Will. So if a spirit had a HT of 12 and a Will of 18 it could hold 30 energy for you. If the GM wanted to they could hold more, but each multiple of energy held would inflect -3 on reaction rolls to convince the spirit to do it. So if you wanted to hold 60 with the previous example you'd have a -3 to reaction rolls.

This assumes a friendly spirit. If spirits are hostile or never voluntarily hold energy like this you'd need to drop it to 0 HP and then capture it with a spell. Once captured you'd make a Will-based Path of Magic roll vs. its Will to "shove" energy into it using the previous guidelines for how much it could take. The upside is there is no penalty to Reaction rolls and you can shove in up to HT + Will x 5 energy into a given spirit.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

For something like that you'd need a Lesser Control Spirit for most spirits and then a reaction roll. Success would let the spirit "hold" extra energy equal to it's HT + Will. So if a spirit had a HT of 12 and a Will of 18 it could hold 30 energy for you. If the GM wanted to they could hold more, but each multiple of energy held would inflect -3 on reaction rolls to convince the spirit to do it. So if you wanted to hold 60 with the previous example you'd have a -3 to reaction rolls.

This assumes a friendly spirit. If spirits are hostile or never voluntarily hold energy like this you'd need to drop it to 0 HP and then capture it with a spell. Once captured you'd make a Will-based Path of Magic roll vs. its Will to "shove" energy into it using the previous guidelines for how much it could take. The upside is there is no penalty to Reaction rolls and you can shove in up to HT + Will x 5 energy into a given spirit.

I am very impressed that there are rules for that - unless you just pulled them out, in which case I am even more so.

Originally Posted by Varyon

A spirit may be fine with a symbiotic arrangement - the mage feeds it plenty of energy, and the spirit uses some for its own needs/desires while the rest is available for the mage to tap into when needed. Of course, if the mage treats it as just being a (perhaps-leaky) mana battery, it may get fed up with the arrangement in short order, but so long as it's treated more like a partner, I'd imagine things would work out. I think there's a way to build a Familiar with a Mana Reserve that is freely available to its master, but I'm not certain where that's located.

Going by the old Runequest divide - which is still one of the only games I'm aware of that takes Shamanism seriously - the co-operative arrangement is what the Shaman does, working with the spirit as an ally and colleague - the Sorcerer, by contrast, uses the spirit as a tool, beating it into submission rather than negotiating - or even breaking it down to use its essence for rituals and enchantments.

[AlexanderHowl]

That could be modeled in the difference between Ally with Minion (+50%) and Unwilling (-50%) and Ally without either modifier. Of course, a shaman may benefit from positive traits related to their relationship with the spirits while sorcerers could suffer from negative traits related to their treatment of the spirits. Of course, RPM does not technically have a summoning/banish effect, so getting the attention of existing spirits may be difficult.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Going by the old Runequest divide - which is still one of the only games I'm aware of that takes Shamanism seriously - the co-operative arrangement is what the Shaman does, working with the spirit as an ally and colleague - the Sorcerer, by contrast, uses the spirit as a tool, beating it into submission rather than negotiating - or even breaking it down to use its essence for rituals and enchantments.

It is my fervernt hop that GURPS will one day have good Shaman rules but already with Channeling or Medium to contact them and Spirit Empathy to effectively use Social skills I feel GURPS already is the best currently out there and we have other pieces already in place.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

That could be modeled in the difference between Ally with Minion (+50%) and Unwilling (-50%) and Ally without either modifier. Of course, a shaman may benefit from positive traits related to their relationship with the spirits while sorcerers could suffer from negative traits related to their treatment of the spirits. Of course, RPM does not technically have a summoning/banish effect, so getting the attention of existing spirits may be difficult.

Since Ally is someone willing to fight alongside you I tend to treat most spirits as Contacts and some as Patrons, plus justification for some other powers such as talked about in GURPS Thaumatology, DF: Summoners, and Totem and Nature Spirits, plus a few other books.
And Summon spirit could be handled with a Create Spirit or Crossroads effect and Banish a Destroy or maybe even Weaken to break their connection.

[AlexanderHowl]

Or you could just add Summon and Banish as separate effects. Lesser effects would involve entities weak enough to be allies while greater effects would involve entities strong enough to be patrons. I would say a base cost of 5 plus the entities base value as an ally or patron.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

I am very impressed that there are rules for that - unless you just pulled them out, in which case I am even more so

No, I made them up. Should work ok though.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Refplace

It is my fervernt hop that GURPS will one day have good Shaman rules but already with Channeling or Medium to contact them and Spirit Empathy to effectively use Social skills I feel GURPS already is the best currently out there and we have other pieces already in place.

Thaumatology touched on it repeatedly, but that book could be five times as long and not cover everything it brought up in enough detail. I think we've all had the conversation about the name GURPS:MAGIC being put on the wrong book. Also, the problems with the points cost of spirit traits seems to make them tricky to use as allies etc.. Come to think of it, you could probably take most of the powers in the game and give them a coat of shamanistic flavour by having them with a granted by restriction tied to a reaction roll or something. Still, could do to have some rules pulled together for those of us to system-dim to build them ourselves.
If only there was someone around ...

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

No, I made them up. Should work ok though.

Like I said, impressed. Are you the guy who is (what an outsider might think of as) a shaman in real life or is that someone else?