Perk: Singing based on IQ

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Possible, based on HT makes the most sense to me though.
Singing is about projecting properly and knowing how to follow or remember the lyrics. So there is a learned component to it.
However its really a very physical activity, especially if your doing it for awhile.

And yet certain singers are known for the intelligence of their singing. Angela Lansbury is still sought after as a singer because she is simply far better at both communicating the meaning of the lyrics to and audience and demonstrating to other singers by example how to sing difficult passages well. Singers love to get recordings of Lansbury, Sinatra, or Ella Fitzgerald to learn how to resolve tricky problems in singing.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by a humble lich

I think that IQ based singing makes a lot of sense for some characters. I would say it represents a singer who might not have the best sounding voice, but who is a skilled performer. Think singers like Rex Harrison, Bob Dylan, Johnny Rotton, or Tom Waits. They might not have a purest voice for opera, but that hasn't stopped them for selling many albums. That style of singing is really more like Performance, which is IQ based.

That's kind of like an average IQ person who happens to be a capable mathematician. You don't give them ST or DX based math skills. You just buy up their skill. Which is cheaper anyway. Or in this case, they rely for their success on their abilities as a performer and songwriter even though objectively they are not great singers.

[dataweaver]

And fencers are sometimes known for being extraordinary not because they're necessarily nimble, but because they're good at outsmarting their opponents. That doesn't stop Melee Weapon skills from being DX-based.

In the same way, I could see musical skills being based primarily off of Perception, but with things like Musical Composition (to craft the tune) and Poetry (to craft the lyrics) being IQ-based. I don't think there's an attribute that's a perfect fit; I'm just saying that if I had to pick just one, I'd rather go with Perception.

Of course, the other part of that is that I'd like to expand “Perception” beyond just “did you sense something?” Basic Set describes it as your “general alertness”. I tend to generalize it a bit to being your aptitude with all things sensory, including an intuitive understanding of how colors, sounds, tastes, etc. go together. That could also be used as a justification for why it's tied to IQ: it's a kind of intelligence.

And yeah, I could get behind the notion of “minimum HT” ratings for various musical instruments, with singing being more demanding than, say, the violin, but not as demanding as the aforementioned tuba.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

...Or in this case, you rely for your success on their abilities as a performer and songwriter.

Definitely agreed on Bob Dylan. RollingStone rated Roy Orbison the 13th greatest singer of all time, and Bob Dylan the 7th. I'm a huge Bob Dylan fan, but in terms of pure Singing definitely do not see him beating out Orbison. What Dylan has, in addition to being an incredible songwriter, is the ability to catch an audience in his Performance.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...l-time-147019/

[a humble lich]

I still think that for artists like Bob Dylan, Wierd Al, and many rappers, that an IQ based Singing skill is more appropriate than just using Performance. Looking at the description of both skills, Singing is the "ability to sing in a pleasing fashion" and Performance is "the ability to act on a stage or screen." What Dylan does seems to fit the definition of of Singing more than Performance. Also, there are many actors out there with a high Performing skill, but little ability to sing. Poetry could also be used, but that should be for composing material, not performing it. It seems a perk to base Singing on IQ or perhaps a perk to substitute Performance for Singing would make a lot of sense for those cases.

[dataweaver]

I don't see why Poetry couldn't be used to compose spontaneously, at an appropriate penalty, of course.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by a humble lich

I still think that for artists like Bob Dylan, Wierd Al, and many rappers, that an IQ based Singing skill is more appropriate than just using Performance....

I agree; I'm sorry I didn't make clear what I meant. I was thinking of what I believe whswhs (William H. Stoddard) had written or posted that, for a musical performance, you'd typically roll against your best/main Musical Instrument or Singing skill and also roll against Performance.

I specifically remember two singers I both saw perform years ago at the same church. One was classically trained, and had an outstanding singing voice--but stood stiffly with arms at the sides. The second had a decent singing voice, but got completely into the song with believable facial expressions and body movements--that singer seemed completely heart and soul into the song.

The first I would rate significantly higher on Singing than the second, but much lower on Performance. Because of that, I enjoyed the singing of the second performer much more.

[malloyd]

It's always valid to float any skill to another attribute when it makes sense. Most performance rolls of Singing probably should float to IQ for *everybody*. The HT base may be reasonable for rolls made in adventuring situations - e.g. where the goal is to determine if you can get the song out loudly enough to be heard in the middle of a battle when you are already breathing hard from your exertions - but it's pretty much nonsense for singing a lullaby or during a studio recording session.

Despite the wording in the official descriptions of Attribute Substitution, it is only reasonable to charge for it as a perk when it allows you to make the substitution in cases where it *does not* make sense - using another attribute where it does make sense is already covered by Using Skills With Other Attributes on p.B172, and doesn't cost additional points. I'm perfectly willing to let you take Attribute Substitution (Singing defaults to HT) or any other skill defaults to its "normal" controlling attribute, to *avoid* floating it to another attribute in a case I think that's required.

[AlexanderHowl]

There is a different between being a practiced singer (Dylan) and a talented singer (Jimi Hendrix).

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

There is a different between being a practiced singer (Dylan) and a talented singer (Jimi Hendrix).

Musical talent is incidentally one of the few talents that really is a great deal.