Haste and Improvised Equipment with First Aid.

[Wavefunction]

Hey guys,

A couple of questions here:

So you can make use of haste with the First Aid skill, taking a -1 per 10% reduction in time taken, my first question is what's the maximum realistic penalty you could take. Both for bandaging and treating shock. As a follow-up to that, what are you actually doing to speed it up so much? Part of it will obviously just be doing the same things but quicker, but are there any tricks or shortcuts involved?

Second question is what effective TL do you work at if you don't have access to appropriate equipment. I swear I read somewhere that you're treated as TL 5 if you'd normally be TL6 or higher if you're using improvised equipment, but I can't find it now.

Thanks.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Hey guys,

A couple of questions here:

So you can make use of haste with the First Aid skill, taking a -1 per 10% reduction in time taken, my first question is what's the maximum realistic penalty you could take. Both for bandaging and treating shock. As a follow-up to that, what are you actually doing to speed it up so much? Part of it will obviously just be doing the same things but quicker, but are there any tricks or shortcuts involved?

Second question is what effective TL do you work at if you don't have access to appropriate equipment. I swear I read somewhere that you're treated as TL 5 if you'd normally be TL6 or higher if you're using improvised equipment, but I can't find it now.

Thanks.

From what I heard with people who are into studying extreme forms of first aid, stuff can be quite fast, such as use of nothing else but a knife handle and a proper grip in order to quickly suppress large-vessel bleeding, which seems to support the RAW idea of -9 being the limit of realistic haste penalties seems to be the case.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Second question is what effective TL do you work at if you don't have access to appropriate equipment. I swear I read somewhere that you're treated as TL 5 if you'd normally be TL6 or higher if you're using improvised equipment, but I can't find it now.

I won't have a chance to look it up for the time being, but I believe that rule actually applies specifically to Physician. Check the skill there. There might be something similar in Ultra-Tech or Bio-Tech that applies to First Aid, though.

I'd be tempted to say effective TL doesn't change, you just use the rule for missing equipment giving penalties. First Aid TL is probably about as much about technique as equipment.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I won't have a chance to look it up for the time being, but I believe that rule actually applies specifically to Physician. Check the skill there. There might be something similar in Ultra-Tech or Bio-Tech that applies to First Aid, though.

The Physician rule is on B424-5, and says that a TL6+ Physician can operate as TL6 if they lack high-tech equipment, provided they have somewhere clean to work. I can't find anything corresponding for First Aid in Bio-, High- or Ultra-Tech.

I'd be tempted to say effective TL doesn't change, you just use the rule for missing equipment giving penalties. First Aid TL is probably about as much about technique as equipment.

I'd agree with that. Also, some parts of First Aid equipment, like bandages, are pretty much the same at TL1-7.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by johndallman

The Physician rule is on B424-5, and says that a TL6+ Physician can operate as TL6 if they lack high-tech equipment, provided they have somewhere clean to work. I can't find anything corresponding for First Aid in Bio-, High- or Ultra-Tech.

I'd agree with that. Also, some parts of First Aid equipment, like bandages, are pretty much the same at TL1-7.

What about at TL 9 or higher?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

What about at TL 9 or higher?

Bio-Tech p124 has Phage-impregnated bandages at TL7, Haemostatic ones at TL8, and Bandage spray at TL9. At TL10+, things get all different and are in Ultra-Tech.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Bio-Tech p124 has Phage-impregnated bandages at TL7, Haemostatic ones at TL8, and Bandage spray at TL9. At TL10+, things get all different and are in Ultra-Tech.

Sorry, I know all that, my question was more, at higher TL equipment begins to change more substantially, should that reduce the amount you can heal when using improvised equipment?

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

should that reduce the amount you can heal when using improvised equipment?

Using the rules on B424, a Physician will be able to attend fewer patients and will roll less frequently when using lower-tech equipment. So, they do heal less, and for fewer people.

First Aid doesn't have variation in amount of HP restored by bandaging (it's just 1 HP or 0), but the generic equipment modifiers will apply a skill penalty. That's a statistical reduction in healing done by under-equipped First Aid, though you won't see a change in each individual case. HP restored by treating shock does vary by TL; missing the higher tech equipment will limit the healing done as well as provide equipment penalties. Missing the Ultra-Tech gear, you obviously don't get whatever bonus healing is written in those item descriptions, so again the total healing available goes down when the best tech is missing.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

First Aid doesn't have variation in amount of HP restored by bandaging (it's just 1 HP or 0...

False there is also Treating For Shock (B424), which increases steadily with TL.


Granted... I wouldn't allow for "Treating In Haste" unless it was a highly cinematic campaign.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Sorry, I know all that, my question was more, at higher TL equipment begins to change more substantially, should that reduce the amount you can heal when using improvised equipment?

That really does depend on the details of how you envisage medical training changing in your SF future.

For an example, Cory Doctrow's novel Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom is set in a future where everyone's minds are backed up regularly, and the answer to all mental health problems is "Wipe, and restore from backup", which is a bit of a problem for the protagonist, whose backup hardware hasn't worked for a while (this is the start of the story, not a spoiler of its resolution).

In that future, traditional medical skills have atrophied, whereas in others, doctors would complain about the lack of regen rays, and fall back on suturing, operating at TL6.