Birthright to Gurps

[Twyll]

There is a french (sorry for that) RPG that used to do this (kingdoms as characters) called Agone. Unfortunately it has disappeared and I don't know if there is an english version. Hope it could help :p

[thona]

Nice ideas. Not an exalted player I am wondering now how I can get access to this :-) I propably will have someone send me copies (I pay, my main problem is right now that I moved into another country and havep roblems getting thigns delivered from german shops, so I relay them through a friend).

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by thona

Nice ideas. Not an exalted player I am wondering now how I can get access to this :-) I propably will have someone send me copies (I pay, my main problem is right now that I moved into another country and havep roblems getting thigns delivered from german shops, so I relay them through a friend).

Where do you live?

Dragonworld.de delivers to other countries as well...

[thona]

Poland now. Hm. Nice. Then I can use them :-)

[lugaid]

i am probably misunderstanding exactly how it works, but it sounds as though the Exalted system may have a few problems. for instance, if Willpower is divided between the two highest of four attributes, does it follow then that a domain with a minimum of two of the attributes and a maximum of the other two is better able to withstand hardship?

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by lugaid

i am probably misunderstanding exactly how it works, but it sounds as though the Exalted system may have a few problems. for instance, if Willpower is divided between the two highest of four attributes, does it follow then that a domain with a minimum of two of the attributes and a maximum of the other two is better able to withstand hardship?

In general, yes. However, this also means you have some weaknesses in your society (the two virtues with minimums) that rival societies can exploit. If you put everything into Valor and Conviction, then that means that other societies can easily convince your population that their culture is much better than your own (an action resisted by Culture + Compassion which can decrease your own culture) or that their provocateurs can easily disrupt your society (an action resisted by Culture + Temperance and which can increase your limit).

Of course, high Virtues also represent a resistance to inner changes. Which means that you have better chances of increasing some attributes than others - a Temperant society will resist an enlargement of the military more than a non-Temperant, for example. It's always a tradeoff.

[thona]

That sould sound vastly familar to certain sect type of orgainzations, which basically focus on certain aspects. Nice.

I sort of like this approach. I am just not sure how well it transposes into a roleplaying game. As in: is this not so abstract that you basically more or less totally loose any real attachment to "real" things?

It is like building domains et al as characters, and then using an abstract combat system between them. This I like.

OTOH it looks a little like - being really really really really abstract. This I do not like.

I have to get my hands on it :-)

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by thona

That sould sound vastly familar to certain sect type of orgainzations, which basically focus on certain aspects. Nice.

I sort of like this approach. I am just not sure how well it transposes into a roleplaying game. As in: is this not so abstract that you basically more or less totally loose any real attachment to "real" things?

Well, player characters can use their own traits and/or spend some of their own personal Willpower and Essence (=magic juice) to influence the domain actions or do them entirely on their own. And it has rules for both "power brokers behind the scenes" and open rulers (as well as rules for struggles for control). And if they spend enough personal Willpower and Essence, they can decide to "zoom in" into any domain action and resolve it as a regular RPG story - success there can give a hefty bonus on the domain action.

But if you are talking about "real things" as "X men of quality Y with weapons of type Z" or "V amount of resource W and C gold pieces in the treasury", then no. The whole rule set takes up about 25 pages (not counting the basic rules for task resolution in the Core Rules), so there is simply no space for that kind of stuff - and wisely, the rules do not attempt to try.

On the other hand, this gives you an almost unlimited amount of flexibility. You can describe what you are doing in almost any way you want, and thus aren't artificially limited in what resources, types of government, etc. you can use. In fact, if you describe it really well, you can get extra dice for your attempts to resolve domain actions (the Exalted stunt rules)!

It is like building domains et al as characters, and then using an abstract combat system between them. This I like.

OTOH it looks a little like - being really really really really abstract. This I do not like.

It is fairly abstract, but you can still visualize what is happening - in fact, the system strongly encourages you to do so. And in my view, that's not too abstract...

I have to get my hands on it :-)

Do that. It certainly gives you ample things to think about...

[thona]

But if you are talking about "real things" as "X men of quality Y with weapons of type Z" or "V amount of resource W and C gold pieces in the treasury", then no.

That is the main point. There is zero correlation between the "real world" items and the domain. For certain things in a fantasy based RPG setting that is limiting. It may work as a system, and it is propably extremely flexible, but - well - it is really really really abstract.

[lugaid]

yeah, i'm going to have to say that, if such a system is ever created for GURPS, i prefer semi-abstraction, similar (for instance) to the relation between the Space combat system and the Vehicles combat system.