First Aid on Self

[Saabre]

I tried to do a search for this but evidently you can't search for First Aid in the forum search engine.

So, my question is: does first aid suffer any penalties when it is being performed by the injured person on themselves. I thought it did, but I don't see any mention of it under first aid in Basic. It's possible this is something I'm simply remembering from 3rd ed, but I wanted to make sure.

[Varyon]

See here. If you can't use the forum's search engine, Google can help you. That particular one was one of the first results with the following search string:

site:sjgames.com "first aid"

[Gollum]

I don't remember any rule about that (but I may have just skipped it).

What I personally do, as GM (it's not at all an official rule) is applying a task difficulty modifier depending on the hit location. No modifier for a leg (because you can use both hands to treat it) - except if the wound is at the back of the leg in which case I would choose something like a -2 (it implies to twist the leg or yourself in a strange position, which is not comfortable). Likewise, no modifier for the chest or the stomach. A -2 for a hand or arm (you have only one harm to make bandages and so on, which is not easy). A -4 if you are enforced to use your off hand (normally (-2) + (-4) is -6, but -6 is, in my humble opinion, too huge; so I just use the off hand penalty for that case). And treating your back is just impossible...

If it is a realistic or horror game, I can also require a will roll to see if the character faints. Especially if the wound is huge and dirty...

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Varyon

See here. If you can't use the forum's search engine, Google can help you. That particular one was one of the first results with the following search string:

site:sjgames.com "first aid"

Wow! Thanks for that link (that you posted when I was writing my reply). I would still add penalties depending on the hit location to the -1 per hit point of injury. Having to twist yourself or to use only one hand make things harder. But, here again, it's just my GM opinion, not a rule.

[Mr_Sandman]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Wow! Thanks for that link (that you posted when I was writing my reply). I would still add penalties depending on the hit location to the -1 per hit point of injury. Having to twist yourself or to use only one hand make things harder. But, here again, it's just my GM opinion, not a rule.

I don't think the quote from Kromm precludes that. It points out that most self first aid should be precluded, and only 'plausible' attempts allowed with a GM determined penalty. The -1 per point of injury is just an example.

It is a very useful link though, it's a situation that comes up all the time.

[Varyon]

Having given it some thought, I'd probably take an approach similar to Gollum. I'd sneak up on the nasty hobbitses and...

Umm, I mean, I'd assess a penalty based on how awkward it would be to see and reach the wounded location. At the table, this would probably be me taking a mechanical pencil and seeing how hard it was to write on the location (using a capped pen or unextended mechanical pencil) and assess the penalty on an ad-hoc basis; I'd probably halve the penalty for a character with Flexible or Double-Jointed. I know there are penalties for working by touch for certain actions, so I'd look those up and add them onto the awkwardness penalty for working on wounds you can't see (such as on your back). For damage, I'm going to use something akin to lwcamps' Semi-Cumulative Wounding System, and that has a system built into it for assessing impairment penalties (mostly due to pain) from more serious wounds, so I'd just apply those penalties as well.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman

I don't think the quote from Kromm precludes that. It points out that most self first aid should be precluded, and only 'plausible' attempts allowed with a GM determined penalty. The -1 per point of injury is just an example.

It is a very useful link though, it's a situation that comes up all the time.

I fully do agree.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Varyon

[...] I know there are penalties for working by touch for certain actions, so I'd look those up and add them onto the awkwardness penalty for working on wounds you can't see (such as on your back). [...]

Right. It may be possible to treat some injuries in the back only by touch. In that case the -5 penalty which is for instance applied to Lockpicking skill in the dark could make the job...

[evileeyore]

This is one time I feel Kromm's ruling is dumb.*


I've done simple first aid on myself, no doubt everyone has. Granted for those things (remove splinters, 2nd degree burns, etc) I wouldn't require a skill roll.

I've also: stitched a wound on my left arm (4 inch long 1 inch deep gash); removed spines from under my knee cap (13 spines ranging from 1-3 inches); put dislocated fingers and shoulder back into place; treated minor eye injuries; treated 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree burns on myself (heat and chemical burns over the years, all smaller than 1/4 inch radius**); treated sprains; bound a fractured toe (several times); identified and treated a black widow bite; identified and treated non-poisonous snake bites; and... I think those are the only ones I'd consider having needed a skill roll.

Anything worse than these and I went to the hospital.

** Any larger 3rd degree burns necessitated hospital trips due to workman's comp. Also... I wanted the burn med which isn't over-the-counter (silver sulfide diazine is a miracle).


For these I'd say Gollum's rules suffice. I certainly wasn't penalized stitching up my left forearm due to size of the injury, but because I had to do it one handed. If it had been my right arm, I'd have gone to the ER.

For broken bones (that aren't fingers or toes)... well. You really need another person to set and splint. The patient would need to move about too much splint properly themselves (mine were all just fractures, so they just needed immobilizing).



* It is entirely possible I am under valuing my own first aid skill level and not realizing the 'penalties' I faced. Keep that in mind...

[EDIT]
Also consider the genre of the game. For realism, Kromm's would work (Gollum's are good for that too), but for an Action game? The Hero often needs to bind his own gunshot or knife wound, which is a staple of the genre, and Kromm's rule would make that difficult (unless you rule that as a 'special effect' of spending CP to reduce a wound - the Hero has to spend a moment binding his wounds later, or being treated later).
[/EDIT]

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

[EDIT]
Also consider the genre of the game. For realism, Kromm's would work (Gollum's are good for that too), but for an Action game?
[/EDIT]

For unrealistic Action games, I wouldn't give any penalty (and even if I cannot be sure, I suppose that Kromm wouldn't either).

Jason Bourne performs first aid on himself while driving his car at full speed in a car chase and looking at the map at the same time... Without the least problem... That's just great like that!