Experiences with running "level 1 to level 20" campaigns, using DFRPG

[mlangsdorf]

DF also has the very short term attrition of good defenses: best Parry, shield Block, Retreat vs 1 foe, possibly a single Acrobatics enhanced Dodge, maybe an Ally's sacrificial parry.

A lot of common monsters need to collectively attempts 4-8 attacks in a single round at a single melee focused delver in order to attrite all the good defenses down to the point where the monsters can hope to inflict HP loss or crippling injury.

But on each character's turn, all their defenses reset and the attrition starts anew. But it's a meaningful consideration on both sides, on top of the long term concerns about HP, consumable equipment, luck or destiny points, and the action economy.

One attrition concern that you missed is the cumulative penalty for healing spells (or once/day spells like Great Healing) that influences the willingness to press on after a bad fight. A well-designed healer can heal around 30 HP of injury per delver each day, but most groups won't seek out more combat after receiving 2 Major and Minor Heals because there's no margin if a catastrophic hit occurs.

[sjmdw45]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

DF also has the very short term attrition of good defenses: best Parry, shield Block, Retreat vs 1 foe, possibly a single Acrobatics enhanced Dodge, maybe an Ally's sacrificial parry.

A lot of common monstOne attrition concern that you missed is the cumulative penalty for healing spells (or once/day spells like Great Healing) that influences the willingness to press on after a bad fight. A well-designed healer can heal around 30 HP of injury per delver each day, but most groups won't seek out more combat after receiving 2 Major and Minor Heals because there's no margin if a catastrophic hit occurs.

Good point.

Maybe this is a sign that I need to turn up the difficulty, or tempt them into taking greater risks, but to be frank my players mostly suffer Luck + Bless attrition and not HP attrition. HP attrition mostly comes from AoEs, falling damage, and other incidentals that don't have much chance of adding up to 30+ HP. (And even then my players like to rely on Sanctuary + Healing Slumber anyway, to conserve for emergencies that Major Healing margin you mention.)

[mlangsdorf]

I didn't think Sanctuary was DF legal, and it seems crazy expensive for an overnight hole-up.

My groups generally didn't suffer 20+ HP in a fight, though Bruno's minotaur berserker memorably did at least four times: brutal slugging duel with a stone golem, brutal fight with a death knight that started with Mrugnak's leg getting crippled, the massive melee where he ran around on fire with a crossbow bolt sticking out of his eye, and his final fight against a Weapon Master spearman who blinded Mrugnak in both eyes. Groups with berserkers need more healing, what a shock.

But it was an infrequent but routine event for someone to take 15+ HP of injury in a single fight and for the group to retreat out of the delve site and return the next day. Or if they were on the road, at least fort up for a day instead of risking more encounters.

You should probably check with your players if they're satisfied with the level of difficult and risk/reward. Some groups want a brutal game of difficult choices, and others want minimal challenge escapism, and many groups are somewhere in between. All styles are valid if everyone is having fun.

[sjmdw45]

Sanctuary is on DF Spells page 35. It's only 5 energy per hour, very affordable if you want to hole up for a while and heal. (4 hours is plenty.) My players like having a Power Investiture 6 Fit cleric around, which gives the cleric 18 energy per hour even in a low-Sanctity zone like a Sanctuary; leaving roughly 14 energy per hour for stuff like Healing Slumber.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by namada

Awesome feedback dude. That's great to know that your power level seemed too high at first. Can you tell me whether your GM bothered trying to modify the number of opponents called for? I know, in general, GURPS is far more deadly when it comes to odds-against-opponents than D&D is, I assume it's the same for Pathfinder...?

If you're fighting against odds, it is important to keep moving, and avoid being surrounded. If you have an opponent in every hex around you, you're going to be in trouble.

Even if you do this well, there will be occasions when being attacked from behind is unavoidable. You need to minimise that as much as possible. Don't skimp on rear armour; I'm starting to wonder about the cost and weight of having better armour at the back than the front.

The short combat turns and detailed movement that GURPS uses change some of the expectations of combat. Spellcasters who hear a party outside their rooms should get at least six hexes away from the door to avoid getting hit by a Move and Attack in the first second.

[johndallman]

Hit point scaling is an interesting issue with playing D&D/Pathfinder scenarios with GURPS characters.

At first, our GM adjusted hit points, but he stopped fairly soon. Monsters have their Pathfinder hit points, and fall over when they go below zero. Two of the characters in our DF party do most of the damage:

Our Knight is a high-ST, high-skill Weapon Master, and readily does 30 points of cutting damage a turn after active defences. That allows us to cope with Pathfinder monsters, given some care with tactics and hit locations.

Our Wizard has settled on normally using Lightning Stare (he gets 2d for no FP) with high skill and the Psychic Guidance perk, blasting monsters' eyes and blowing through to their brains. Since he's normally in Body of Air, he can stay out of their grasp with flight move 10.

Our Necromancer and Scout-Thief do damage on a smaller scale, but are in no way useless. The necromancer's Deathtouch is invaluable for things with lots of DR or immunities, and he can use Phase to avoid getting hit in melee. The Scout-Thief uses cover well and harasses spellcasters with bowfire, making the enemy's situation more complicated. Our cleric is a henchman, and stays out of fights.