[RPM] Altered Traits

[PK]

Originally Posted by rsqrdroberts

I created a new thread that should have been a reply to this thread, so I am going to be doing more damage by re-asking it here. Apologies in advance.

It's okay -- I deleted that thread to avoid confusion.

And my answer as author is the same as it was on the first page of this thread, though I'll try to expand it a bit:

If you find yourself needing to reference specific, named GURPS traits to describe the game mechanics of your spell, then it needs Altered Traits. If you find that you can describe those game mechanics using nothing more than general terms and references to spell effects, then it doesn't . . . unless the GM thinks that it needs them for game balance.

That's a fuzzy answer, but RPM is an (intentionally) fuzzy system. Every ritual is a cooperative negotiation between the player and GM, so I hope this answer gives you some guidance in that regard.

[4rc4num]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

It can be tricky, but basically:

• Does the spell put the effect under the control of the caster? Example: A caster can make someone fly with just a Greater Control Body effect. The flight is under his control. Alternatively, he can use the same effect and use Altered Traits, Flight now the subject can fly on his own as long as the Duration lasts.
• Does the spell significantly enhance the subject's abilities? Example: A caster turns a human into a cat using Greater Transform Body which lasts for the Duration of the spell. The transformation is not under the subject's control. Alternatively, he can add Altered Traits, Alternate Form to all the subject to turn into a cat at will.
• Does the spell by dint of it's spell effect already do what you need it to do? Example: a caster would not need Altered Traits, Slave Mentality or Reprogrammable to use a Greater Control Mind effect to enslave a target.

Sorry for coming latter to the party, but I want to say that this post looks wrong to me.

One of the best things of RPM is that it at least tries to have some "logic'' + ''game balance'' inside the system, at least in my opinion.

The way that the rules work makes some stupid things that are possible in Mage: the Ascension became impossible in RPM, like opening a gate to the sun or to a black hole. The range modifier makes this nearly impossible in a fair way. This is important because the setting need a explanation of why a crazy suicide style mage dont destroy the world with a ritual (in ascension the technocracy is the ''god machine'' of the GM who saves the setting no matter how ridiculous this can be).

That said, I think that RPM can receive more "game-balancing" from PK in a Pyramid Article or even with the a "RPM Companion" sugestion.

About your reply:

1. By the rules the mage have control of the spell even without using altered traits. The only way to lose the control of the spell is making a Charm, the caster can even "auto dispell" the ritual if it is not a charm. Plus, concetration isnt a way to make a 12 hour ritual cheap, if you want more than momentany duration then pay the energy.

AFTER CASTING
Once cast, the spell will last for whatever duration the caster chose. A caster may cancel all the effects of his own ritual before they expire. This takes one second and does not require a roll, but he must be free to move and speak. He has no other connection with the ritual (unless that was added as an effect); he doesn’t know how subjects react unless he can see them, he doesn’t instinctively know when it will end, etc.
The original caster may come back to extend the spell’s duration. At any time before the spell ends, he may work a new ritual, using the same Path skill.

2. About Mind Control, I think that is completely game breaking alowing Mind Control without Altered Traits. Slave Mentality and Reprogrammable are too cheap and I would add a limitation about one order/command for "spell effect" to add some game balance, then giving two orders like "buy a ice cream" and "commit suicide" increase the cost to two Greater Control Mind (X 5). Plus, dont make any sense a spell to compel someone to say the Truth need to pay for Compulsive Talking and Truthfulness but one ritual that can kill the subject costing less.

That said, the same logic applies with the Transmogrification ritual that need Altered Traits, but I would ask PK if he writted all rituals or maybe this is a small misconception of a collabolator (make sense to me).

Last but not least, if anyone want a specific ritual cheaper just allow the caster to buy a leveled perk of ritual mastery. 5 levels of one ritual is cheap and works best than breaking the entire system.

[X the Unknown]

Ok, I'm extrapolating here.

Below are three rituals done two ways. The first is one I created, the second CRR created in response to another poster, and the third is from T:RPM.

Are my conclusions correct?

Shrink

Effect under the control of the target.

Originally Posted by X the Unknown

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body [8] + Altered Traits: Shrinking [65] + Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3] + Duration: 1 hour [3]
Cost: 237 energy (79x3)

Effect NOT under the control of the target.

Originally Posted by X the Unknown

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body [8]+ Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3] + Duration: 1 hour [3]
Cost: 42 energy (14x3)

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Originally Posted by Juca

Second, an invisibility spell (The subject is turned invisible for the duration, and cannot carry anything) - Transform Body (8 points), adds advantage (Invisibility (affects machines, only substantial) for 56 points) and, lets say, duration of 10 minutes for 1 energy point. It is a Greater Effect, so the total cost is (8+56+1) x 3, or... 195 energy points, right?

I'm changing it slightly for simplicity.

Invisibility

Effect under the control of the target.

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body [8] + Altered Traits: Invisibility [40] + Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3] + Duration: 1 hour [3]
Cost: 162 energy (54x3)

Effect NOT under the control of the target.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Typical Casting: Greater Destroy Energy [5] + Weight, 300 lbs [3] + Duration, 10 minutes [1]
Cost: 27 energy (9x3)

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Body of Shadow

Effect under the control of the target.

Originally Posted by T:RPM, p. 39

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body [8] + Greater Transform Energy [8] + Altered Traits: Shadow Form [50] + Duration: 10 minutes [1] + Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3].
Cost: 350 energy (70x5)

Effect NOT under the control of the target.

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body [8] + Greater Transform Energy [8] + Duration: 10 minutes [1] + Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3].
Cost: 100 energy (20x5)

Is this right?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Yeah, that looks right.