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Old 11-24-2021, 05:48 PM   #1
Varyon
 
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Default [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

I referenced this recently in another thread, but I'm thinking of creating a relatively-light campaign, tentatively called Golem Riders. The idea would be a campaign "setting" (probably more a hex crawl without much narrative story around it) wherein there exist special magic items called Golem Seeds (or perhaps Golem Cores). Now, these aren't your typical Golems, but we'll be getting to that. Golem Seeds can be created, but more often they are harvested from defeated Golems (and repaired - the destruction of the Golem invariably damages the Seed, making it inoperable), either your own or those you face ("wild" Golems can be encountered, typically in dungeons, or you may face Golems controlled by hostile forces). Those who make use of these Golems are known as Golem Riders - I'm not certain if this is something innate to certain rare individuals, or if it's something anyone can learn, but a Golem Rider can connect his or her soul to a Golem Seed, allowing the Rider to control the Golem remotely. Only one Golem can be so attached to the character at a time, but while it is attached the Rider may freely switch between controlling (and perceiving the world through) the Golem or his or her own body; whatever isn't being controlled goes into a trance-like state, although the Rider retains some perception of his/her own body at all times (and so can snap back if in danger). Most Golem Riders are skilled delvers in their own right - indeed, it's likely they acquired their first Golem the hard way, defeating one in combat and using funds from delving to have it repaired. They also need to be relatively close to their Golem - too far distant, and the Golem becomes difficult to pilot, eventually to the point of being impossible.

When a Golem Rider connects to a Golem Seed, the Seed rapidly grows into a full Golem. While the Golem largely has the personality of its Rider (there are often some subtle differences), their skills and abilities can be quite distinct - a vicious Barbarian might have a Golem that is a learned Wizard, a cunning Thief one that is a straightforward Knight, and so forth. However, some of the Rider's skills and abilities can "bleed" through - that Sage may be able to competently wield an axe, despite lacking any skill with it, while that Knight may be able to sneak up on foes unawares if the situation calls for it. A Rider automatically - and fully - disconnects from a Golem if it is destroyed, and a destroyed Golem is reduced to a (damaged) Golem Seed - the Golem built around it is reduced to dust. The Rider can also disconnect willingly from a Golem, to similar effect, although the damage in this case is markedly less severe (allowing the Golem Rider to repair it in the field, provided they brought the correct materials along; this is often done if the Rider decides the Golem's current configuration won't cut it, and thus wants to start over). Finally, the Rider can collapse the Golem into something resembling a Golem Seed, for easier transportation - this allows the Golem to be summoned up fairly readily without needing any rebuilding.

My intent for the Golem Riders is that they'd be built either with baseline DF rules or Delvers to Grow - any Rider who actually has a Golem is likely to be at least a [125] Journeyman, and a [187] Master or [250] Veteran is honestly more likely. The Golems would be built more quickly, using Delvers to Grow; most Golems are around [62] Novices, but more powerful ones are available.

The design process for a Golem would actually start with choosing a "build" template. This can be a humanoid (baseline), centauroid (Extra Legs; Enhanced Move), or lamiaform (No Legs (Slithers); Constriction Attack). There may be options to enhance this base form with things like Extra Arms, Natural Weapons, Flight (Winged), Damage Reduction, etc. While machine-like, golems are made of soft tissue, are a bit fragile, and are (oddly) susceptible to similar hazards as living beings - essentially, they don't have any sort of Injury Tolerance, Immunity to Metabolic Hazards, Doesn't Breathe, etc (they don't require sustenance or sleep themselves, but if their Rider is missing such, the Golem will suffer the same effects as the Rider). The Golem can also be designed in a range of sizes - I'm currently thinking you may opt to make them anywhere from SM-2 to SM+2 (with smaller ones automatically having lower ST, larger ones higher ST). This effectively functions as a Racial Template for the Golem. Points spent at this stage generally result in the loss of an Upgrade Module, while if any points are gained (or if you have points from your lost Upgrade Module left over), those go into a general slush fund.

Next, you go through the DtG process of building a character. Note it's perfectly acceptable for the Golem to have higher (or lower) IQ, skills, etc than the Rider. The Golem automatically uses a Disadvantage Module on being Dead Broke - Golems don't form with gear*, and thus must be outfitted with whatever the Rider has available. I'm... not certain what Upgrade Modules and Disadvantage Modules would be off-limits to the Golems, however, although I'm certain some would - or at the very least, they wouldn't be worth the full [-25], burning up some slush fund points. I feel Social Stigmas** should be off-limits; what about Codes of Honor? Are those limiting enough for an entity that basically only pops into existence when the character wants to have a teleoperated drone instead of going in him/herself? (Although, given the Golem can readily have an entirely different skillset compared to the Rider, there may be other situations where you're better sending a Golem than going yourself)

I'm also not certain how to handle the "bleed through" of the Rider's skills/abilities. Should the Golem automatically just gain some fraction of the Rider's skill points in each skill (fractional points functioning like Dabbler)? Should it instead have some sort of Modular Ability that can be used to give it access to the Rider's skills/abilities? Something else? I like the idea that a Thief's Golems will always be a little sneaky, a Knight's always have some degree of competence with weapons, and so forth, but I'm not certain how it should be implemented.

*Although you can approximate them having such with certain Advantages - namely, Damage Reduction for armor and Natural Weapons for weaponry.

**That said, it may be appropriate to actually give them a general one. People may well be offended if you arrive in Golem form to meet with them, while damaging or destroying a Golem doesn't have the same legal implications as injuring or killing a person. This seems to a combination of Second-Class Citizen and a reduced version of Valuable Property, so call it [-10], perhaps - -1 to reactions from folks who aren't also using a Golem, and effectively reduced rights (attacking a Golem is generally damage to property - elevating to theft if you destroy it and then take the core with you - not an attempt to murder a person), albeit not quite to the point of Valuable Property (using lethal force to defend your Golem is likely often considered acceptable).


Thoughts? Ideas?
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
While the Golem largely has the personality of its Rider (there are often some subtle differences), their skills and abilities can be quite distinct - a vicious Barbarian might have a Golem that is a learned Wizard, a cunning Thief one that is a straightforward Knight, and so forth. ,,,

Thoughts? Ideas?
I was following you up to this point, but now I have to ask: why? What purpose does this setting serve? Who is it for?

I could somewhat understand how non-adventurer types (up to and including "player characters" intruding from another world altogether) might want to use expendable, customizable drones to do the dangerous work of delving for them. I have a hard time seeing why a delver who has developed considerable competence in one area would suddenly want to add or swap it for another, at the cost of working remotely through a filter with an entirely different set of preferences and motivations.

Giving up the advantages of a drone (non-living, etc.) also seems like a bad deal.

On some level, it appears to me that you are creating a "role-playing game within the role-playing game": players in the Real World (tm) are playing characters in the game world who are playing your golems. It seems unnecessarily meta to me, unless that is the point.

On the other hand, a more conventional "golem riders" campaign could be fun, mixing mecha action with traditional dungeon crawling. There is a series of Japanese light novels where one of the protagonist's few special abilities is "Create Golem." He can adjust the size, shape, and function pretty much at will. He uses the ability to create (among other things) armored exoskeletons, mechanical cash registers, reconnaissance drones, and moveable dungeon walls that don't register as "traps" on magic scans.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

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Thoughts? Ideas?
From the title, I was expecting more of a piggy-back format. Y'know, like the swimming pool wrestling game. That would be aces. ;)
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

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I was following you up to this point, but now I have to ask: why? What purpose does this setting serve? Who is it for?
There's a few purposes behind it. From the standpoint of the characters, delving is risky, so doing it safely is useful. Additionally, because the stakes of failure are lower (possibly abandoning the delve early, and needing to pay for repairs*), the delvers don't need to be quite as careful, allowing them to clear dungeons more quickly (and possibly even tackle dungeons they wouldn't be willing to enter themselves). This makes it similar to a setting where resurrection is incredibly cheap, but without the same issues those have ("We must determine who murdered the king and bring them to justice, and keep the country stable through this inheritance crisis. This task will be difficult, but -" "Or we could just, y'know, bring the king back." "Oh, yeah..."). Additionally, it means you can essentially tweak your abilities to face the specific scenario you're facing, rather than needing to be omnicompetent.

From the standpoint of the players, it means they can build a character (rather than just another warm body) and still participate in something of a meatgrinder. As part of that, it allows for the players to experiment with different builds, without meaning they are either locked-in or have to abandon a long-running character to try something new. If there's a role the party needs, but nobody really wants to play (like Healer), they can basically trade-off who has to "take one for the team" - "Alright, I'll configure my Golem into a Healer for this delve, but next time it's someone else's turn!" It also means that I, as GM, don't need to lie about rolls or retcon things if I screw up and throw them up against something they can't handle - I don't like killing characters, and hate doing so if it's because of my mistake, but with the lower stakes here, that's not as much of an issue. Indeed, while I consider myself fairly conversant with the GURPS rules, I have very little GM'ing experience, and if I manage to get a group together to play, they're unlikely to have much - if any - playing experience, either. Something like this seems like it would make for a decent learning experience for both myself and my players.

And, while I intend for the campaign to be story-light, I think a setting with something like this could be interesting. Generals would be able to stay relatively safe in the war camp (they're still susceptible to assassination, of course), yet still lead from the front, after a fashion (attending the battle via Golem). Rulers and other Very Important People might only make public appearances via Golem, making meeting with such a person in the flesh a rare honor.

*If the entire Golem party gets wiped out, there's the risk that the characters won't be able to retrieve the Seeds, which is a much worse result... but certainly better than death!

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From the title, I was expecting more of a piggy-back format. Y'know, like the swimming pool wrestling game. That would be aces. ;)
Maybe I should have named it better - I was thinking more along the lines of how the loa are said to "ride" those they are semi-possessing, but I guess that's fairly obscure.

And yeah, Golem mecha or mounts would indeed be pretty nifty.
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Old 11-26-2021, 02:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

Kiln People by David Brin somewhat explores this theme, although the setting is very different.

Regarding what you've presented, it looks a lot like summonable modular allies where the primary characters sink earned points into a bigger summing pool. The golems wouldn't themselves gain points, just be replaced between sessions.
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Old 11-29-2021, 11:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

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From the standpoint of the players, it means they can build a character (rather than just another warm body) and still participate in something of a meatgrinder.
For me that's the real point... to have explicitly throw-away combatants for a meatgrinder game.



I must admit, I'd run the game with a full roster of monstrous options that be ridden, from dragons to giant spiders.
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Old 11-29-2021, 12:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

So medieval fantasy cybershells. I think it can certainly be a fun campaign.

For stating this out, are you going down the route of Possession (Puppets Only, -30%; Telecontrol, +50%) and the Allies (Summonable, +100% and Gadget (varies)) route? The Allies must of course be built with the correct parameters including Puppet and Unhealing.

The only issue with this approach is how you gain the skills and mental traits of the host golem (e.g., a spellcasting golem's spells). Possession doesn't really give you anything other than physical traits. There are some modifiers to allow accessing skills, but they're limited. You'd probably have to throw in a Cosmic enhancement in there. I'm guessing that's at least a +100% level.

Alternatively, a Modular Ability with "Limited: Only to traits possessed by the host -10%" might work. In this case, however, the PC needs to have enough points for acquiring all of the traits. That can also be an interesting setting concept as well "I am still not powerful enough to master all of the abilities of the golems I ride, but will get there one day."

And all that is assuming you even need to stat any of it. From what I can tell of your description, this can totally be "magic item" based, and thus only cost cash, not character points. You acquire and lose golems just like any other item in the game.

Setting design question: Will there be a way to restrict "low level" characters from using ultra-powerful golems right off the bat... say a minimum level of a Talent for a give point value of the Golem? Otherwise, if it's just equipment, the really wealthy can become very powerful. The Modular Abilities approach to traits is one possible way of limiting abuse. Or is the fact that a small child might stumble upon the most powerful golem and become the champion of the kingdom something you want to allow to happen?
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

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So medieval fantasy cybershells. I think it can certainly be a fun campaign.
Yep, that's more-or-less the idea, although I came to it in a different fashion.

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
For stating this out, are you going down the route of Possession (Puppets Only, -30%; Telecontrol, +50%) and the Allies (Summonable, +100% and Gadget (varies)) route? The Allies must of course be built with the correct parameters including Puppet and Unhealing.
Nope - as you suspected later, the Golems are just gear. I haven't decided how they'll be referred to in the setting, but you essentially have several tiers of them - those that are comparable to DtG Novices (so [62] points), those comparable to Journeymen ([125]), those comparable to Masters ([187]), those comparable to Veterans ([250]), and possibly those that are still more powerful. Although I may end up bumping those up a bit to more readily allow for different builds (the equivalent of racial templates) and/or a bit of boosting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
Setting design question: Will there be a way to restrict "low level" characters from using ultra-powerful golems right off the bat... say a minimum level of a Talent for a give point value of the Golem? Otherwise, if it's just equipment, the really wealthy can become very powerful. The Modular Abilities approach to traits is one possible way of limiting abuse. Or is the fact that a small child might stumble upon the most powerful golem and become the champion of the kingdom something you want to allow to happen?
I haven't yet decided what determines if someone can ride a Golem, but I do know some degree of training is required. In a campaign where you can have PC's who can't ride Golems, I'd make Golem Rider an Advantage, probably eyeballing it around [25] (which makes it appropriate as an Upgrade Package in Delvers to Grow)... or make not being able to ride a Golem be a Disadvantage worth [-25]; either way, this covers both the training and any X-factor that is required to be a competent Golem Rider. That doesn't matter for the first campaign I intend to run in the setting, as part of the premise is that all the characters aren't just capable of riding Golems, they actually start out with Golems of their own.

However, Golem Rider would very much be a binary trait - either you have it and can use any Golem Seed you get your grubby little mitts on - be it some weakling [0] version or a godlike [5000] version (assuming either of those exist... they probably don't) - or you don't have it, and Golem Seeds are useless to you. I haven't decided what a Golem Seed would be worth, but I don't think I would want a character with Very Wealthy (the maximum you're able to start with in DF) to be able to afford to upgrade his right out of the gate. That does imply they're worth quite a great deal, which means if/when I have them acquire (via defeating the rogue Golem(s) containing them*) newer, better Golem Seeds, I'll need some reason why they can't get fantastically wealthy by selling off their old Seeds.

*EDIT: It occurs to me I may have a solution here, based on a combination of sumptuary laws and licensing. Golems themselves aren't terribly expensive, but you generally cannot purchase one of a given level unless you have the right to possess one of that level. Nobles of a certain rank (Status in GURPS terms... which DF conveniently doesn't make available), and royals, have such a right. Someone of insufficient Status can gain it, either by purchasing an appropriate noble rank (which is terribly expensive, and requires official approval... which itself is generally rather expensive via gifts/bribes) or - and here the PC's come into play - by acquiring one through lawful deeds of arms, such as defeating one in a dungeon, on the battlefield, or in a lawful duel (ambushing a Golem being ridden by someone else to steal it won't work here... unless you already have the right to own such a Golem).
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Old 12-02-2021, 05:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

I don't get it: are those "Golems" Pokemons, so they have personalities, physiology, are able to improve, evolve and eventually die...
Or power armors: that you can thinker, disassemble, store indefinitely.
Are they animals, plants? Minerals? Magical? Natural?
And from a Player point of view: what impedes me to create a very feeble PC and to reinvest all the points in a vast array of Golems to fit any situation?

I mean the idea is cool, but for a light combat hex- crawler I would go full anime: golems as ancient things coming from who-knows and dug up from the ground like fossils (Eureka 7) that once "awakened" by specialists from a guild (so you have all the restrictions and code of honors you want) can be "primed" to gifted individuals and summoned as required (Guyver) but they have a will and personality of their own that can clash with the host (Evangelion).


I don't know, i find the whole "combat drone like" idea quite bland: dungeon delving with no risk, no drama, no blood and with only a negligible economic loss as stake doesn't sounds right.
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: [DF] Golem Riders - a campaign idea

I feel like one way to play with this setting would be to have the focus on the golems, in much the same way a mecha setting focuses on the mecha.

If I were running it, I think what I'd go with is something like this:

Golem Cores were created by an ancient civilization, and the secret to their creation is lost. Though they can be repaired, they can't be replaced; thus, they are valuable. Each one is unique, and has something of a personality.

In the modern day, artificers have mastered the tech to create new bodies for Golem Cores. These are prestige goods, but they're also useful in war, dueling, adventuring, labor, and of course delving - the only source of new Golem Cores. The ruins of the ancient civilization dot the landscape and are still being plumbed.

There are two ways I'd go with it at this point: either the tech is new, and thus golems are rare and sought after; or it is established, so you have dingy labor golems and battered veteran golems that PCs can start with and work their way up. (Alternately, there is a way to make Golem Cores, but artificer-made cores are deeply inferior to ancient ones, and tend to break irreparably after a year or two.)

The core gameplay loop would be in two parts. The first part is, of course, delving. It's necessary to get new Cores, to get materials to repair or upgrade ancient Cores, and also leads to wealth and prestige. Linked to that is the golem workshop, where the PCs can upgrade and alter their golems, subject to the skill of the artificer and the nature of the Core.

The second part depends on the nature of the campaign. If the PCs are members of the upper class, with access to the rare golems, they're jockeying for status among their peers and probably have a couple rivals they compete with. So it's court intrigue and such, ala the Three Musketeers.

If, on the other hand, they're gritty commoners who've somehow come into a dingy, lower-grade Core, they're trying to get the capital and backing to fund more delving expeditions for upgrades; dealing with the more-established delvers and (worst of all) the aristocrats who have the shiny, awesome golems; and other typical shenanigans. More of an illegal street racing scene than the courtly intrigues...
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