Does teleport maintain intertia?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by RyanW

That might not be so horrible as you might imagine. The reason acceleration is so hazardous is because not all the bits of you accelerate at different rates. Your skull stops but you brain keeps going, far example. If you suddenly experience a massive but completely even change in velocity, you might not even notice it. That doesn't happen in reality, but neither does teleportation.

Hmmm... it occurs to me that "everything experiences the acceleration equally" could actually be a pretty decent technobabble explanation for inertial dampeners. I guess I could claim I'd already accounted for this with my "inertial dampeners" mention in the previous post, but really this idea didn't occur to me, and it does indeed make sense for instantaneous teleportation to work this way.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I think that's yet another form. If you can do that, what are you maintaining momentum relative too? It's not the teleporter (that's zero), it's not the Earth, or any other close to inertial reference frame (that always points in the same direction), it's some weird science that conserves the magnitude of momentum without preserving direction, even though it's a vector quantity.

What Varyon said. I am NOT, repeat, NOT worrying over the angular momentum of my game world's rotation, Coriolis forces, or anything of the sort. What I do at my table is seek to have an interesting game, not for the folks attending Physics 352 to have a hypothetical hack session.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

What What I do at my table is seek to have an interesting game, not for the folks attending Physics 352 to have a hypothetical hack session.

Granted but this takes us back to retained inertia being the basis of large amounts of shenanigans as people try and exploit the phenomenon. That'll get you into more physics than you probably want to deal with.

What you probably want is "I _blip_ between point A and point B and all problems are automagically compensated for".

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Granted but this takes us back to retained inertia being the basis of large amounts of shenanigans as people try and exploit the phenomenon. That'll get you into more physics than you probably want to deal with.

What you probably want is "I _blip_ between point A and point B and all problems are automagically compensated for".

Just take the solution that serves best for your game, the answer can and will be different from game to game.

But one question someone is teleporting maybe even between worlds, if a person can do this in known physics impossible feat with just using his body and psy, shouldn´d he be able to compensate automatically for it? Because if not, the next question is why can mages do this trick without reality check, just because it´s magic? Or even better look at the standard setting for 4th Ed Infinite Worlds, using a conveyor to move between places on the same planet or even changing the quantum will have the same problem. A object on the north pole has another relative speed and inertia than someone on the Equator. Even worse if he is moving actively in one direction and come out after transport facing another direction.

For game purposes allt this facts and physics are ignored, because if you start to solve on problem, you open the next one and in the end you have not a game but a physics simulator. While I love GURPS for passing mild reality checks and making sense in the game borders itself Imho this is something the GM has to decide.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Willy

But one question someone is teleporting maybe even between worlds, if a person can do this in known physics impossible feat with just using his body and psy, shouldn´d he be able to compensate automatically for it? Because if not, the next question is why can mages do this trick without reality check, just because it´s magic?

Which makes no sense, as even if it is dressed up as psionics or technology, it's still magic.

[dcarson]

The Witling by Vernor Vinge is set on a low tech planet where the locals can teleport but momentum is kept. Troops march long distances as part of training so they know where rocks that will have large relative speeds can be teleported from. Forts have one thick wall on the side the rocks have to come from. Long distance transportation is sealed boats that teleport from lake to lake to absorb to arrival speed. A single country rules both poles. All sorts of ideas on how the physics could affect things.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Granted but this takes us back to retained inertia being the basis of large amounts of shenanigans as people try and exploit the phenomenon.

Alright, I'll bite. How, exactly, are people going to "exploit" the phenomenon?

First off, Teleport Other isn't precisely a common spell; it's a Very Hard spell with significant prerequisites.

Secondly, the size/range/speed modifier is not remotely a trivial factor. While those worried about "exploiting" haven't set forth hypotheticals, let's consider. Are people worried about "oooh, the mage might teleport a speeding car into the Big Bad's fortification!!!" Alright, swell, but we're talking -4 on speed/SM, a cost into the stratosphere, a range penalty of a few at the irreducible minimum, a ghastly cost/skill multiplier on weight, and there's still that resistance roll. For which I'd be likely to eye the player narrowly, drawl "Knock yourself out, Sparky," and have any friendly NPC in hearing range blanch with terror and run away from the impending catastrophe.

Thirdly, well ... if some clever (and/or insane) player works around all the drawbacks ... that means the player is using his or her abilities to advantage. This is the sort of thing that Teleport Other is FOR, and I'm not inclined to nerf it just because, well, reasons.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by RyanW

That might not be so horrible as you might imagine. The reason acceleration is so hazardous is because not all the bits of you accelerate at different rates. Your skull stops but you brain keeps going, far example. If you suddenly experience a massive but completely even change in velocity, you might not even notice it. That doesn't happen in reality, but neither does teleportation.

That is just what happens in a gravitational field, unless you are wide enough to experience a tide.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Alright, I'll bite. How, exactly, are people going to "exploit" the phenomenon?

Depending on the particulars of your teleportation, you could do something like accelerating to a really high speed (perhaps by first teleporting yourself high enough into the sky to reach Terminal Velocity) while carrying an anvil, then teleport the anvil alone behind your target with the orientation rotated so it flies forward and into them. If you can't do exoteleports (or if a held - or recently held - item uses you as its point of reference), you may instead be able to teleport yourself a bit further away, let go of the anvil, then teleport to safety, leaving the anvil behind to do its thing. And, keep in mind the spells of the basic magic system aren't the only way to teleport - there's the Warp Advantage, there are other magic systems that can have it (RPM would use Path of Crossroads, for example), and of course there can be gear that lets you teleport.

Personally, I don't have a problem with teleportation maintaining relative velocity. Absolute velocity is a different story, but more just because it would be a nightmare to figure out at the table the direction and speed imparted by teleportation than because of game balance concerns.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Alright, I'll bite. How, exactly, are people going to "exploit" the phenomenon?

I think the primary question is not "does it make the characters too powerful," though that is something that can happen and can make a game less fun. But a more basic point is that, if you want to run a game where players cast cool spells, and confront adversaries, and in general roleplay, but you use an interpretation of teleportation where things like conservation laws apply and where a clever player can come up with ways to use them to gain advantages for their characters—then you're going to see game time being spent on talking about the technicalities of physics rather than on dramatic actions. And if that's not the flavor you're aiming for then you've got a problem.