[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Allies and Ally Group

[pax360volt]

make sense! thanks to all of you :)

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The problem is, you'd frequently be paying for things you couldn't make use of because a contact is not an ally.

Being built from an Ally isn't the same thing as being built as an Ally, so no you wouldn't be paying for stuff you're not using. The Ally would be "modified" into being a Contact (whether via Limitation or other modifier). A similar modifier might work out for insubstantial Allies or Patrons, the type that show up (or just need to be contacted) to do their thing and then are gone, instead of being fully realized characters (as per my last post).

I realize I messed up earlier, but I hope this is as clear as it can be now without me actually doing a full write-up... and a write-up will be difficult due to the fact that this is still just a theoretical "thing", plus I've got some other deadlines to worry about at the moment, and of course my questionable level of Skill with GURPS. ^^'

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Being built from an Ally isn't the same thing as being built as an Ally, '

Slapping an arbitrary discount on the Ally doesn't mean you aren't making it as an Ally. Some contacts are wheelchair bound mentally ill recluses who just happen to be authorities on the occult and are giving you all the help they are capable of providing. Others might be gods.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Slapping an arbitrary discount on the Ally doesn't mean you aren't making it as an Ally. Some contacts are wheelchair bound mentally ill recluses who just happen to be authorities on the occult and are giving you all the help they are capable of providing. Others might be gods.

I do not understand what you are saying.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I do not understand what you are saying.

Allies are built based on the character point total of the character. Representing Contacts the same way runs into the problem that the general capability of the Contact has no connection to how much they'll help you. Your Contact could be a god, capable of depopulating the planet, but if all it offers is you is advice and the occasional very minor miracle, its full power is simply irrelevant to it's value to you as a contact.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Allies are built based on the character point total of the character. Representing Contacts the same way runs into the problem that the general capability of the Contact has no connection to how much they'll help you. Your Contact could be a god, capable of depopulating the planet, but if all it offers is you is advice and the occasional very minor miracle, its full power is simply irrelevant to it's value to you as a contact.

You simply price it based on the abilities available to a PC. For example, a police detective who is a contact is likely to have a range of abilities including possibly combat abilities but for the purpose of the game all that matters are the effective detective skills. So for a Contact with a skill of 15, price that as a Wild Card skill of 15, bought up from an attribute of 10. That would be worth about 84 points meaning for contact purposes this detective counts as an 84 point ally. Whether he's in a wheel chair or a martial artist (or both) is irrelevant for the purposes of his value as a contact. Possibly add a limitation (a small one) for the fact that the Ally's abilities are available only for a limited pool of tasks.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Allies are built based on the character point total of the character. Representing Contacts the same way runs into the problem that the general capability of the Contact has no connection to how much they'll help you. Your Contact could be a god, capable of depopulating the planet, but if all it offers is you is advice and the occasional very minor miracle, its full power is simply irrelevant to it's value to you as a contact.

In this theoretical exercise, Contact ?% would change the character point value from mattering to how much they are capable of helping you. One way to look at it is to look at it like a feature; instead of being an equal points character to you that goes on adventures, they are equal in 'usefulness' to the character as that ally. A god, starving hobo, talking cat, son's wife, etc., it doesn't matter. As long as they have the same utility, that determines the price. The problem is of course how to determine what 'useful' means. Skills, even Wildcard skills, don't work because we have a basis to work that on; taking said skill and adding 'External' to simulate some outside help giving it to you. Really, what might make the most sense is to build the Contact on whatever % value of the PC, as per Ally, but for purposes of what help they provide you, not their actual value (and rough guesstimations are fine here instead of for actual Ally since the point is how useful they are, not their actual value). You could even do the same approach with Ally (and is usually done with Patron) since what really matters about the NPC is who they are to the PC. An Ally who can create anything they can imagine (upwards of 700pts) might still be a '150pt' ally since they never use their power. Even the GM might only know they have it just for flavor reasons.

[Ashtagon]

Originally Posted by johndallman

There is a problem with Contacts in that sometimes what you want from them isn't readily modelled by a skill. Thinking about people whom I might claim as Contacts, I realised that for some of them I might want them to use their own contacts, on the whole "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" thing, and that led to me to an idea for a generalisation of contacts.

You're buying some kind of resource, measured in character points, with availability and reliability modifiers. So it might be a skill, a further Contact, or something else. This offers the possibility of unifying Patrons and Contacts, with Patrons just being very large Contacts.

That's a very good point. It does seem to me that Patrons have a lot more in common with Contacts than they do with Allies.

[Not another shrubbery]

I can certainly understand the appeal to consolidating Allies, Contacts, and Patrons. The similarities make it seem like a natural place to reduce trait clutter. I don't know that it's worth the effort. Although Contacts could sure use something to make them more attractive, that's for a different thread.

OT: I had a crazy idea of a game where the PCs are designed like Allies, as a percentage of some arbitrary amount, with higher percentages costing them some scaling amount of foo points, and leftover points being tradeable for fabulous in-game prizes.

... needs work :p

[sir_pudding]

I have an idea for a fix for Contact that causes almost no damage to existing rules.