Reduced Recoil and Very Rapid Fire

[beautyandnotthebeast]

Using both the Very Rapid Fire enhancement and Reducing Recoil to 0 with the Reduced Recoil enhancement allows you extra hits equal to twice your margin of success, but what happens when you combine both of them? Would it be tripled or quadrupled? And how would increase the number of extra hits even further?

[Varyon]

I believe the Reduced Recoil option from Meta-Tech is meant to be applied to existing weapons rather than necessarily being meant for a wild Advantage. I'd treat the final level of it as the same as Very Rapid Fire, and not allow them to stack - in fact, I'd probably be inclined to replace VRF with Reduced Recoil, as I feel the price of the latter is probably more appropriate for what it does.

That said, I could see cause for allowing multiple levels of it, such that you can hit with multiples other than 2. Because I'm addicted to the Size and Speed/Range Table, my own inclination would be to say that, once you're at Rcl 1, every further +10% from Reduced Recoil is +1 SSR to the number of hits per MoS. So +10% is 1.5 per MoS (round final value down - MoS 3 would be 4.5, for 4 additional hits, while MoS 4 would be 6 additional hits), +20% is 2 per MoS (same as for the suggested "Rcl 0"), +30% is 3 per MoS, +40% is 5 per MoS, +50% is 7, +60% is 10, and so forth. That's just a first pass idea, though - I'd need to do some testing to make certain it's not abusive. A slower progression might be to just say +20% is 2 per MoS, +30% is 3 per MoS, +40% is 4 per MoS, +50% is 5 per MoS, and so forth.

[Rupert]

I'd say that Reduced Recoil going down to Rcl 0 is, like Enhancements notes for Very Rapid Fire, something that can mess up a game pretty seriously. Note that the original High-Tech version, High-Cyclic Controlled Bursts has all the limitations of Very Rapid Fire, and only grants Rcl 1. I also think that both are under-priced, and that Very Rapid Fire isn't well-designed and Reduced Recoil should probably simply replace it.

My experience running an SF game for many years is that Rcl 1 weapons are incredibly effective, and 'Rcl 0' is not something you'd ever see in my games. IF anything, I think most weapons' Rcl is a step too low, and Rcl 1 should only be for things like shotguns and as a very rare 'special', with even lasers having Rcl 2.

[acrosome]

Given the way that automatic fire works in 4ed now, I don't think that Rcl 0 is possible the way that it was in earlier editions. The minimum Rcl possible is 1. Even lasers have Rcl 1. Look up the rules B373-374 and I think that becomes obvious. It even says "Rcl 1 means the weapon is recoiless".

Logically, per RAW, Rcl 0 means that so long as your to-hit roll succeeds then all of your full RoF hits. It becomes all or nothing. Consider a RoF 66 minigun with Rcl 0: if you miss then no shots hit, but if you hit even by just barely rolling exactly your target number then all 66 shots hit. Every time. Which is sort of absurd.

Though maybe I'm wrong and there is RAW somewhere for Rcl 0?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Given the way that automatic fire works in 4ed now, I don't think that Rcl 0 is possible the way that it was in earlier editions. The minimum Rcl possible is 1. Even lasers have Rcl 1. Look up the rules B373-374 and I think that becomes obvious. It even says "Rcl 1 means the weapon is recoiless".

Logically, per RAW, Rcl 0 means that so long as your to-hit roll succeeds then all of your full RoF hits. It becomes all or nothing. Consider a RoF 66 minigun with Rcl 0: if you miss then no shots hit, but if you hit even by just barely rolling exactly your target number then all 66 shots hit. Every time. Which is sort of absurd.

Though maybe I'm wrong and there is RAW somewhere for Rcl 0?

It's from GURPS Meta-Tech - on page 30, it suggests the option for Reduced Recoil, at -20% per level. This is largely meant to be added to existing weapons to reduce their spread, but it also explicitly allows for Rcl 0, which works as described - you get two additional hits for every point of MoS, up to full RoF.

Personally, I agree with you that, with the way Rcl is structured, "Rcl 0" would logically make the attack all-or-nothing, and thus I'd prefer to refer to the above as fractional Rcl instead. Rcl 1/2 for what MT30 calls Rcl 0, and possibly the option for things like Rcl 1/3, Rcl 1/5, etc, as I described above.

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by Varyon

It's from GURPS Meta-Tech -... it also explicitly allows for Rcl 0, which works as described - you get two additional hits for every point of MoS, up to full RoF.

Ah, fair enough. I haven't read Meta-Tech.