OK I've grappled my enemy - now what?

[jcpatten]

I have Fantastic Dungeon Grappling, and am trying to follow its rules for a Wrestler character in my game. I figured out how many dice for Control Points the character has, but beyond that I'm really hazy about where to go from there.

For the game, I'm running I Smell A Rat module. The Wrestler encountered the Golem-armor swordsman, and decided to try a grapple. She was successful, and got 11 control points. "Now what?" I wasn't sure what she could do with the grapple, other than hold it still so that others could attack it. So that's what she did. Given it's got 17 DR there didn't seem to be much in the way of options.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by jcpatten

I have Fantastic Dungeon Grappling, and am trying to follow its rules for a Wrestler character in my game. I figured out how many dice for Control Points the character has, but beyond that I'm really hazy about where to go from there.

For the game, I'm running I Smell A Rat module. The Wrestler encountered the Golem-armor swordsman, and decided to try a grapple. She was successful, and got 11 control points. "Now what?" I wasn't sure what she could do with the grapple, other than hold it still so that others could attack it. So that's what she did. Given it's got 17 DR there didn't seem to be much in the way of options.

Unsurprisingly, the section After a Grapple lists the categories of things you can do.

Attack (Grapple More): you can either attack to score more Control Points to rack up more DX penalties, or counterattack a foe's grapple to reduce their hold on you.

Disarm: Take away their weapon

Frog March: This is a concentrated effort to move with a foe one step, or change direction/facing and make them come along with you.

Grab and Go: Move more than a step, change posture or facing while grappled, or pick up and carry one or more foes who are grappling. If you need to take a foe with you at a rate of more than one step per second...this is your move.

Injure the Foe: Make a grappling attack and spend control points to cause injury. Look up DR and Grappling on the same page to determine if the foe's armor/protection actually protects (hint: usually not).

Strangle: If you're grappling the neck, cut off air or blood, or do damage.

Takedown: Like Frog March, but change the foe's posture to whatever you'd like.

Almost all of the grappling techniques from Martial Arts can be expressed as one of these options.

[jcpatten]

I saw those options, but wasn't certain that the character could actually hurt the DR 17 golem. The character doesn't have a knife, just a tonfa and her fist. I suppose she could have tried the Back Breaker (Kiss the Wall) but thought she might take more damage than the golem would.

Are there any helpful videos or blogs that discuss how it all works together?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by jcpatten

I saw those options, but wasn't certain that the character could actually hurt the DR 17 golem. The character doesn't have a knife, just a tonfa and her fist. I suppose she could have tried the Back Breaker (Kiss the Wall) but thought she might take more damage than the golem would.

Are there any helpful videos or blogs that discuss how it all works together?

uff-dah. Yeah, a DR 17 golem probably qualifies for homogeneous, and therefore gets the full amount for injury. You'll need to rack up a lot of control points and them spend them all at once. The way to do that is probably bring a lot of friends.

[jcpatten]

I don't understand the "Attack (Grapple More)" move. So in the first grapple, the wrestler rolled 2d+3 and got an 11. If she attacked/grappled more, does the second roll add to the results of the first, or replace the results of the first?

And the grapplee can defend by a reverse attack/ungrapple? Does this person roll against their control dice and subtract from the grappler's control dice?

I've seen a quote somewhere that a grappler can tear someone's arm off. I can't see how that happens unless you can acquire lots more points than 11 (or 15 as max of above).

[Kallatari]

Originally Posted by jcpatten

I don't understand the "Attack (Grapple More)" move. So in the first grapple, the wrestler rolled 2d+3 and got an 11. If she attacked/grappled more, does the second roll add to the results of the first, or replace the results of the first?

They are cumulative. So you currently have 11 Control points on the foe. You can perform another Attack (note: it's just an ordinary grappling Attack... Doug mentioned Attack (Grapple More) solely to distinguish it from, say, trying to punch or stab the opponent with a knife) and should you succeed, then the grappling points are added together. So if you roll 10 on your next roll, the opponent will now have (11 + 10 =) 21 Control Points affecting it.

Note, however, that you cannot inflict more Control Points on opponents than you yourself have as a Control Maximum, which is equal to Lifting ST plus possibly some modifiers. So if your own Control Maximum is, for example 18, then if you rolled a 10 on your second successful grappling attack, then you would stop at 18 Control Points instead of 21.

Originally Posted by jcpatten

And the grapplee can defend by a reverse attack/ungrapple? Does this person roll against their control dice and subtract from the grappler's control dice?

Again, this is simply a grappling attack. When you succeed, you roll your Control Points in "damage", and you get to inflict them in either two ways: a) to cumulatively add Control Points on your opponent so as to hinder them; or b) to reduce the amount of Control Points that opponent has on you. You are allowed to do both with the same attack, so you if you rolled an 11, you could spend 5 of those points to reduce the Control Points your opponent has on you by 5, and then the remaining 6 to add 6 Control Points on him (as 5 + 6 = 11).

In the rules on p.4, you'll see this referred to as Attack (Grapple/Counter-Grapple). Again, it's really just an attack, with the parenthesis portion of Grapple/Counter-Grapple - or what Doug called "Grapple More") to further explain what you're doing.

Originally Posted by jcpatten

I've seen a quote somewhere that a grappler can tear someone's arm off. I can't see how that happens unless you can acquire lots more points than 11 (or 15 as max of above).

Tearing a limb off is not available in Fantastic Dungeon Grappling, bur was instead found in the much more complicated (too complicated) GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling. If FDG is complicated for you, do not bother even trying Technical Grappling, as even the experts at it find it complicated.

As a quick implementation with FDG, just use the Injure The Foe rules (p.5). Roll the normal damage for a punch - you're using your hands to rip a limb, so do the damage of your hands for a punch. You can further increase it by a flat +1d per 3 control Points your spend on the attack (i.e., that you reduce the control you have on your opponent by). Your foe gets to apply his DR, both natural and worn, to your damage roll.

From there, just use the rules for Crippling and Dismemberment (DFRPG Exploits, p.61), with the only houserule change in that I'd allow the "wrench limb" (spending CP to rip off a limb that you've grappled) just like a cutting attack so that if the damage was at least twice the minimum needed to crippled the body part, it isn't just crippled but destroyed. And as a limb, it's dismembered... i.e., you ripped it off.

Note, this is rather cinematic, but regardless, the limb would be destroyed and unusable anyway because of the damage. So at that point, why not allow it to be "ripped off."

[Kallatari]

My recommendation for this specific foe which you seem unable to penetrate through the DR to inflict any damage: Takedown. Get the golem lying face-down which gives it a -4 DX penalty (for being prone), and when combined with any DX penalty you give it from your Control Points inflicted on it, will hopefully prevent it from successfully hitting you or any of your allies. If you get on its back while its down, you're "behind it" and attacks against you are an an additional -5 Wild Swing attacks.

And while you're keeping it busy on the ground, hopefully your allies have attacks that can harm it. And they're skilled enough to hit it without hitting you because you're in close combat with it.

So, you want to settle for limiting/penalizing its attacks, not trying to damage it.

[jcpatten]

OK, thanks everyone. I'm beginning to get a handle on this.

[Anders]

Step 1: Establish grapple

Step 2: ...

Step 3: Profit!

[jcpatten]

I have more understanding, but I'd like to run through a scenario.

Wrestler has acquired the grapple against the golem and has the 11 CP. "Kiss the Wall" example to slam them into floor mentions opponent takes their thr-2 damage, plus additional damage from wrestler's per die CP bonus, plus can spend 3 CP per die to increase the damage.

Golem's ST is 13, so thr = 1d. So golem gets 1d-2 damage, plus 2 points from the per die CP bonus, plus 3d from spending the CP. Is that correct?

Does the Golem's DR count in this example? I'm guessing it does not.

So the golem can get anywhere between 5 (0+2+(1x3)) to 24 (4+2+(6x3) points of damage?