Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2020, 02:06 PM   #1
phayman53
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

Just wondering:

If you wanted to run a Dungeon Fantasy game with the standard combat power level found in the DF supplements, but with more social interaction and other more serious RPG element, how many points would you add to the DF templates for social and other traits and skills that DF glosses over? I'm thinking 25-50, that way every class could have some decent non-combat skills and abilities, but ones that already have those skills will be even better.

Thoughts?
phayman53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2020, 02:20 PM   #2
zoncxs
 
zoncxs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: earth....I think.
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

What social traits do you think are lacking from the templates?

Also, If you want to run a more social type of game, with less combat, then players should be going for templates that offer more social traits (Bard and Thief), but in the end, all that is moot if the players are good at role playing their characters.
zoncxs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2020, 02:59 PM   #3
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

Social skills tend to gravitate toward the high IQ guys, though HT based skills like Carousing and Sex Appeal counter that some
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2020, 03:16 PM   #4
Imbicatus
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

The templates all pretty much have the options for social skills built in, barbarian has carousing and intimidation, Druid has diplomacy, and so on. I think the only template that doesn’t have any social skills is scout, and they can use quirk points to add one or two. If you add a point bucket to everyone to use social skills that’s fine, but the classes that already excel at it like Bard, Swashbuckler, and Thief will still be better at it.
Imbicatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2020, 10:19 PM   #5
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

I started my current Nordlond campaign at 300 points. I didn't make any firm requirements about how to spend them, but encouraged players to spend the extra points on social and background skills that made sense in terms of the setting. In a series of emails to the players before the campaign began, I sent them examples from the Nordlond corpus of ways that such skills would come in useful, like this example from Citadel at Nordvorn:
In some of the more civilized areas of Norðlond, you're safe from overt violence if you engage in flyting, a ritual exchange of poetic insults. A proper flyting is a demonstration of wit, learning, and verbal audacity. It takes the place of martial combat in situations where engaging in violence is rude or inappropriate.

In game terms, a flyting involves a series of taunts that can be resolved with various skills. Public Speaking is key. Diplomacy is helpful. Other skills that can be brought to bear include: Current Affairs or Savoir-Faire to relate an embarrassing incident, Musical Composition, Poetry, or Singing to delivery a witty burn in skaldic verse, Performance to mock the foe’s mannerisms, Sex Appeal to impugn their romantic appeal, or Intimidation to diminish their valor.
To my delight, the players took this to heart and we've had more than one session that were 100% social (including at least one full-on flyting contest).
Dalin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 08:32 AM   #6
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
In game terms, a flyting involves a series of taunts that can be resolved with various skills. Public Speaking is key. Diplomacy is helpful. Other skills that can be brought to bear include: Current Affairs or Savoir-Faire to relate an embarrassing incident, Musical Composition, Poetry, or Singing to delivery a witty burn in skaldic verse, Performance to mock the foe’s mannerisms, Sex Appeal to impugn their romantic appeal, or Intimidation to diminish their valor.[/INDENT]To my delight, the players took this to heart and we've had more than one session that were 100% social (including at least one full-on flyting contest).
Do you want skaldic rap battles? Because this is how you get skaldic rap battles.

I would also point out the rules for seeking an audience from a high-status noble that got placed on pp. 104-105 of Citadel at Nordvorn as well.

Nordvorn is interesting (to me, anyway) because it was written with explicit support for social play outside of Longbru, the only settlement explicitly labeled "Town" with a capital-T.

Others can comment (and have) as to whether they also find it interesting. But the Dungeon Fantasy RPG can absolutely be used to support social play, using Advantages, Talents, and other traits to plus-up your ability to win friends and influence people . . . and similar down-sides for things like Social Stigma, poor reputations, getting whupped in a flyting, Cowardice, and the like.

It's there. It's just not "take the I talk good skill!" Well, except when it is...Public Speaking and Diplomacy are there, after all; Carousing stands in very well for some things, and if you really want to cozy up to that Boar-Folk barbarian, there's Sex Appeal.

I think the emphasis on 'the game lets you get right to the killing and looting' overshadows the fact that while it LETS you do this, there's plenty of support for NOT doing it.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 08:42 AM   #7
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

I'd be careful just adding points. "Social guy" is an obvious niche for certain professions – especially the bard and the innkeeper! Also, a mind-game-playing mentalist will end up with Acting, Detect Lies, Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, Intimidation, Public Speaking, etc., while a thief can be "urban" and rather good at Carousing, Fast-Talk, Merchant, and Streetwise. Even some specialist clerics are manipulators. You don't want to go too far in the direction of diluting their importance . . . people choosing to play "faces" might feel a little cheated if everybody can be a "face" but not everybody can be, say, a caster, stealth expert, or warrior.

My advice would be two-pronged:

1. All professions may use the advantage and disadvantage allowances on their templates for Wealth and/or the traits discussed on pp. 4-7 of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 17: Guilds – Allies, Claim to Hospitality, Clerical Investment, Rank, Reputation, Status, Tenure, etc. – as well as for the usual traits. They don't get extra points for this! Players must decide for themselves what balance of hack 'n' slash ability and social effectiveness they deem important.

2. Everybody must have at least 5 points in skills the GM agrees are "social."* This would require nothing extra of the bard! Heck, a suitably-built knight would sacrifice nothing. For most, this would mean sacrificing a few quirk points . . . but almost nobody would have to give up all 5 points. Even a "crude" barbarian has some social skills. Only the standoffish scout might be strained – which is arguably logical, given the disadvantage profile. Again, this wouldn't involve extra points, just a change in the balance between hack 'n' slash and social capability.

* On the standard templates, I'd count Acting, Body Language, Carousing, Detect Lies, Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, Gambling, Gesture, Interrogation, Intimidation, Leadership, Merchant, Panhandling, Propaganda, Psychology, Public Speaking, Savoir-Faire, Sex Appeal, Streetwise, and Teaching.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 09:06 AM   #8
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
1. All professions may use the advantage and disadvantage allowances on their templates for Wealth and/or the traits discussed on pp. 4-7 of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 17: Guilds – Allies, Claim to Hospitality, Clerical Investment, Rank, Reputation, Status, Tenure, etc. – as well as for the usual traits. They don't get extra points for this! Players must decide for themselves what balance of hack 'n' slash ability and social effectiveness they deem important.

2. Everybody must have at least 5 points in skills the GM agrees are "social."* This would require nothing extra of the bard! Heck, a suitably-built knight would sacrifice nothing. For most, this would mean sacrificing a few quirk points . . . but almost nobody would have to give up all 5 points. Even a "crude" barbarian has some social skills. Only the standoffish scout might be strained – which is arguably logical, given the disadvantage profile. Again, this wouldn't involve extra points, just a change in the balance between hack 'n' slash and social capability.

This dicotomy is important to note. Social advantages and social skills act in very different ways. When you say you want to "add social points", you should be aware which of these you are adding to.



A third category may be considered: skills like dancing, current affairs, games, some lore skills, and so forth.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 09:23 AM   #9
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

I wouldn't make People use their quirk points, I'd allow them to shuffle the mandatory skill points around I think if they'd prefer

The extreme flexibility of quirk points makes them tge oh so most precious of precious resource for DF chargen and taking that away by forcing some to go to social skills would be sad
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 09:31 AM   #10
Colarmel
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northeast Kansas
Default Re: [Dungeon Fantasy] Point total for game with more social play

What I'd do, if the table is right for it, is just allow RP to supplant skill rolls. Leave the skill rolls in place when the desired results step out of the realm of reasonable results for the interaction, so the Bard still has stuff he can do others can't. And make sure the Bard knows how you plan on running social stuff.
Colarmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.