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Old 01-17-2012, 05:35 PM   #11
vierasmarius
 
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I think the rule should be something more like:
  • Hurting Yourself (B. 379) applies when an unarmed attack is successfully parried or blocked by any weapon or shield with DR+HP>3 (in other words basically anything); unless the parry was made by exactly one or zero (in which case it's a non-contact parry). EDIT: Actually, I'm not even sure this is right. Most unarmed strikes against a parrying surface aren't going to be full force anyway. Maybe Hurting Yourself should apply if you only made your attack by some margin, or if the parry critically succeeds or something.
  • The Agressive Parry technique (Martial Arts p. whatever) applies to armed parries just as it does to unarmed parries. If a weapon would normally become unready on either an attack or parry it does so in this case as well. You may do reduced damage (as per Defensive Attack (Martial Arts p. something-or-other)) to keep your weapon ready if it would have been unreadied as an attack.
I never considered using the Hurting Yourself rules in this case. It makes sense though. I'm fully behind the Agressive Parry technique being used for armed as well as unarmed parries, though it might make sense to make the armed version a little easier.

Another thought, on the subject of 0U Parry / ST‡ weapons getting to parry and damage (and thus violate the implicit restrictions on these weapons' use). A parry isn't a full swing, but more often a sort of "jab" with the haft or pole. As such, perhaps even an Aggressive Parry with these unbalanced weapons should inflict thrust-based crushing damage instead of the normal damage type. This could apply to balanced weapons too, though swords would still inflict cutting rather than crushing.
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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This could apply to balanced weapons too, though swords would still inflict cutting rather than crushing.
Why would it unless the swordsman parries with the edge, which isn't going to be the case for many (if not most) sword parries?
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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Why would it unless the swordsman parries with the edge, which isn't going to be the case for many (if not most) sword parries?
Well, I think this would be a case of using the Aggressive Parry technique - ie, the swordsman accepts a penalty to his parry to attempt to inflict real damage to his opponent. The fact that this has a penalty compared to a normal parry indicates that he's using it in a manner he may not be trained for. For sticks or staves this involves parrying with more force than usual; for swords it also includes parrying with the edge instead of the flat.
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

I have always thought of this as imposing your weapon in the path of the attack, rather than slapping the blow aside. They punch at you, you put the mace in the way such that your power and theirs is combined. The punch at you, you angle the sword in such a way as to force them to punch a sharp edge, or you draw cut them on the way end. In this way, I find half damage most appealing. What does Aggressive Parry do in this regard?
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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I have always thought of this as imposing your weapon in the path of the attack, rather than slapping the blow aside. They punch at you, you put the mace in the way such that your power and theirs is combined. The punch at you, you angle the sword in such a way as to force them to punch a sharp edge, or you draw cut them on the way end.
Who trains this way? Especially with polearms?
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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Who trains this way? Especially with polearms?
If there was a book out there on using a sword or polearm to defend against unarmed attackers I'd like to see it. As a police baton trainer we taught baton weilding officers to attack the legs unless the assaliant had a knife. Then you target the arm with the knife. From a boxing stance it would be hard to differentiate between an aggressive parry or a wait and attack. In both cases you try to hit the arm and keep the knife from hitting home.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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I have always thought of this as imposing your weapon in the path of the attack, rather than slapping the blow aside. They punch at you, you put the mace in the way such that your power and theirs is combined. The punch at you, you angle the sword in such a way as to force them to punch a sharp edge, or you draw cut them on the way end. In this way, I find half damage most appealing. What does Aggressive Parry do in this regard?
Aggressive Parry, and it's lower-body sister technique Jam, are unarmed parries that allow you to damage an attacker. They inflict the equivalent of punch or kick damage at -3, or -1 plus -1 per die (whichever is worse). For example, a Karateka with ST 13 and Karate at DX+1 would inflict 1d-2 on an Aggressive Parry and 1d-1 on a Jam, compared to 1d+1 punching or 1d+2 kicking. This is within striking distance of 1/2 damage, though as you exceed about 3d (ie, ST ~30) this approaches 2/3 damage. For human-centric games, it seems fair to just call it 1/2 damage.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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If there was a book out there on using a sword or polearm to defend against unarmed attackers I'd like to see it.
So then why should it be the default? People fight like they train.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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So then why should it be the default? People fight like they train.
I don't think he's saying that would be the default, but would be the "armed" version of Aggressive Parry.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: Armed Parries against unarmed attacks.

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If there was a book out there on using a sword or polearm to defend against unarmed attackers I'd like to see it.
Take a look at any of the various Fechtbuchs (Fechbuchen?) out there. They often show armed defenses vs. unarmed. They show more unarmed defense versus armed, but I'm sure that's more from need to explain than popularity. Learning to stop a knife when you don't have one takes a lot more explanation than stopping someone with a sword when you have one and they don't. But humorous fechtbuch pictures of being losing a hand or arm(s) to swords influenced some of the rules in GURPS Martial Arts.
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