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Old 07-20-2020, 08:51 AM   #31
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
Depending on the strictness of "innocent" it could certainly be a Major Vow. If it's merely something like "hasn't broken the law/done anything 'bad' in the last month/year", I would certainly agree with you. But if "innocent" is something like "Has never committed a sin" it could be a Major Vow due to the rarity of the victim type (depending on setting).
In that context it usually means, "not normally considered as justifying killing". He can't be guilty of first degree murder, treason, or any other such henious crime nor can he be an obvious threat to personal or commuity self-defense.
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Old 07-20-2020, 07:25 PM   #32
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
even without getting into the moral issues
It might be the moral option to the killer. Vows can very much be the backbones of your morals and how you view the world. But yes, I do think it is unrelated to how hard the Vow is.

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Originally Posted by Gumby Bush View Post
I think the suggestion is not that it isn't a major inconvenience, but that the inconvenience is more accurately represented by an accompanying Secret (Annual Serial Killer) [-30]; than by the degree of the Vow. The Vow I would assess by how much it inconveniences the character to have to murder *on Halloween*.
Exactly. 30pts for the secret and 1pt for the vow is still vastly more points than a Major Vow.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 07-20-2020, 08:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

There would likely be a Secret, but I believe that it is still a Major Vow. The idea that anything that compels you to commit murder annually is worth only -1 CP is just bizarre, especially since that is the same value as Dislikes romance novels.
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:43 PM   #34
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Would it actually be Major? A single, yearly event that doesn't seem that hard to do seems less disadvantageous as tithing 10% does.
This seems like "murder-hobo morality." For any sane person, murder is hard.
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
There would likely be a Secret, but I believe that it is still a Major Vow. The idea that anything that compels you to commit murder annually is worth only -1 CP is just bizarre, especially since that is the same value as Dislikes romance novels.
I think the general idea is that the character was already going to commit murder (in the case of Secret (serial killer) and Vow (only kill on halloween)); the Vow simply sets the local planetary date/time.

And I think having to commit said murder on 1 specific day out of 365 (and a bit) makes it worth more; about [-5].

Remember, that is more, and very specific, information that the police/city guard/station security AI/local superheroes/etc can use to not only track down, intercept, and locate the perpetrator; but to identify that there is a serial killer in the first place.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:15 PM   #36
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
This seems like "murder-hobo morality." For any sane person, murder is hard.
...So?

First of all, nobody claimed the person who has a Vow to murder an innocent person every Halloween is sane.

And if we were to suppose that they are, would the 'hard' nature of murder create any Disadvantage? "My character has Dramatic Feelings" isn't a Disadvantage. It becomes one when it is upgraded to "My character has Dramatic Feelings and therefore behaves in inconvenient ways." What inconvenient behavior follows here?


If you're playing with Stress and Derangement or something like that, a Disadvantage that will force you to act in a way that causes derangement might be worth more than normally...
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:16 PM   #37
kirbwarrior
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
There would likely be a Secret, but I believe that it is still a Major Vow. The idea that anything that compels you to commit murder annually is worth only -1 CP is just bizarre, especially since that is the same value as Dislikes romance novels.
The vow just didn't seem like it would even come up that often. I find some quirks like that; It'll come up once or twice and utterly wreck you, but that's it.

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
This seems like "murder-hobo morality." For any sane person, murder is hard.
Most people have Reluctant Killer. In fact, I've seen a lot of people say it's unrealistic for anyone to not have it. Which would be a problem, yes. But otherwise there's no mechanic that actually makes murder hard in GURPS. In fact, killing someone is frankly easy.

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Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
I think the general idea is that the character was already going to commit murder (in the case of Secret (serial killer) and Vow (only kill on halloween)); the Vow simply sets the local planetary date/time.

And I think having to commit said murder on 1 specific day out of 365 (and a bit) makes it worth more; about [-5].

Remember, that is more, and very specific, information that the police/city guard/station security AI/local superheroes/etc can use to not only track down, intercept, and locate the perpetrator; but to identify that there is a serial killer in the first place.
I did kind of forget about modern detective work. I'm still not quite sure since Secret does the job of making you worry about evidence or other problems coming up already in 10% of sessions, which would either be a result of modern detective work, random luck, divining, etc.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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I did kind of forget about modern detective work. I'm still not quite sure since Secret does the job of making you worry about evidence or other problems coming up already in 10% of sessions, which would either be a result of modern detective work, random luck, divining, etc.
True; however, the Vow means the character must leave traceable, predictable evidence.

Edit: I should note, in addition to any evidence they would normally leave.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:36 AM   #39
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

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Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
True; however, the Vow means the character must leave traceable, predictable evidence.

Edit: I should note, in addition to any evidence they would normally leave.
It does? I think I missed that, what evidence?
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Old 07-21-2020, 06:48 AM   #40
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Vow

The Vow is somewhat similar to Trademark
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