Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Car Wars > Car Wars Old Editions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2020, 03:49 PM   #1
PeteC
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Introducing the game

Hey all, currently reliving my misspent youth by introducing my Monday night board game group to The Fantasy Trip and Car Wars.

I have played about five games of car wars with total newbies (a couple of people played in more than one of those games) and I just want to share a few observations I had that might benefit people interested in running introductory games.

For reference, I was playing with the 1996 compendium. Four of those games were arena brawls using these glorified golf-carts:

Lil'Banger: Subcompact, Light chassis, Light suspension, Small power plant, 4
Standard tires, Driver w/BA and Bowie Knife and Submachine Gun
and 3 Explosive Grenades, Vehicular Shotgun Front, Junk Dropper
Back, Plastic Armor: F4, L2, R2, B3, T2, U2, Acceleration 5, Top
Speed 100, HC 2, 2070 lbs., $2900

I know this vehicle seems weird and pathetic but it worked out pretty well. One hit to the side and then you're taking internal hits. Junk droppers taught about how automatic fire worked and avoiding the junk resulted in a few spectacular deaths. It kept games short and spicy. Also I was hoping they would try to knife each other, lol.

The last game was a homebrew scenario using an off-road map where an off-road rescue van was subcontracted by Gold Cross to recover a duellist's corpse from a wreck that was being looted by a cycle-gang. It was a real hit.

So anyhoo, here are a few observations:

1: Grenades are too annoying for introductory games. The player's loved them and were constantly biffing them t each other. I, the referee hated them. I gave them to players because I thought they would encourage pedestrians to stay and get smushed rather than run to a bunker, but the bookkeeping was too much. Save grenades for the campaign when your players have some experience and can track their own handling and speed and whatnot. This leads me to my next observation:

2: Like many games of a certain vintage (original Warhammer 40k, Battletech, etc), this game benefits from a referee as opposed to a "player that knows the rules". This is my own personal "cause celebre". I know I know, I wanna play too, but the game kinda needs an accountant, and sorry to break it to you, but if you are reading the SJG car wars older editions forum, that person is probably you.

3: After the first turn or so, if movement isn't going to be relevant for a player due to distance or whatnot, just let them move a full turn's movement at once. Use the 5-phase movement as a video-game "bullet time". I've considered marking out a ruler with 17mm increments and using the 1/3 second phases in 5th edition to speed up the game. Thoughts?

4: Don't limit yourself to arenas. The arena maps (especially the one that comes in the latest printing box) aren't exactly eye-candy when compared to the Midville and off-road maps. The rescue scenario I put together was a real hit.

5: Let drivers get pasted. Half the fun of this game is the hilarious, spectacular and gory ways your character can die. How many other games can you processually and verisimilitudinously play out the last 4 seconds of your character's death as their car flips and burns? The Eurogames me and my buddies usually play reward you with a point total, while Ameritrash like car wars reward you with an awesome story.

Anyways, I'm not trying to tell anyone not to do. These were the first games of car wars i've played in like 25 years, and I'm mostly trying to organize my thoughts and figured I'd share. I feel like the "refereed tactical wargame" is kind of a lost art. I feel like gamers would really get a lot out of experiencing one, and the mirthful dystopian hyper-violence of car wars is just about the coolest way to go about it, in my humble opinion.
PeteC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2020, 05:59 PM   #2
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
Default Re: Introducing the game

Dear PeteC,

Your post has excellent observations and advice. Here are links to older resources you might find interesting.

Steve Jackson Games - Car Wars Plus Pro II Gold
http://www.sjgames.com/car-wars/suck.html

Steve Jackson Games - Car Wars Rules Questions
http://www.sjgames.com/car-wars/questions.html

Ireland Autoduel Association (IADA) Archive
https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/iada/index.html

Tampa Wrecking Crew: Car Wars Rules from the Black Circle Gaming Society
https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/twc/index.html
__________________
Michael P. Owen
Seattle Washington Autoduel Team
https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/swathome.html
Twitter: Car Combat Central
https://twitter.com/carcombat
owenmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 02:24 PM   #3
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Introducing the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
1: Grenades are too annoying for introductory games.
By a wide margin -- for us, it was the scattering rules which caused most of the problem. We adopted a much-simpler rule:

Take a coin, die-with-number, or other object with a defined "top"; flip it; whichever direction the "top" is pointing is the direction of scatter, and each point by which the roll came in under 12 equals 1/4" (thrown) or 1" (fired) of scatter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
2: Like many games of a certain vintage (original Warhammer 40k, Battletech, etc), this game benefits from a referee as opposed to a "player that knows the rules". This is my own personal "cause celebre". I know I know, I wanna play too, but the game kinda needs an accountant, and sorry to break it to you, but if you are reading the SJG car wars older editions forum, that person is probably you.
A proper ref is useful for Important Games (Championship matches, etc.); for more-casual events, it's not so critical. (It also helps to have a "constitution" of sorts, where one writes down "how was this situation resolved?"; then, if it crops up again, one can go back and say "This is how it handled last time".)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
3: After the first turn or so, if movement isn't going to be relevant for a player due to distance or whatnot, just let them move a full turn's movement at once. Use the 5-phase movement as a video-game "bullet time". I've considered marking out a ruler with 17mm increments and using the 1/3 second phases in 5th edition to speed up the game. Thoughts?
This is how I've seen it done in every game I've ever played -- move by turns until an engagement is possible; then someone will call for "phase-by-phase", and then the nitty-gritty can be dealt with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
4: Don't limit yourself to arenas. The arena maps (especially the one that comes in the latest printing box) aren't exactly eye-candy when compared to the Midville and off-road maps. The rescue scenario I put together was a real hit.
Indeed -- playing "Crusaders" with varying tech levels is Educational. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
5: Let drivers get pasted. Half the fun of this game is the hilarious, spectacular and gory ways your character can die. How many other games can you processually and verisimilitudinously play out the last 4 seconds of your character's death as their car flips and burns? The Eurogames me and my buddies usually play reward you with a point total, while Ameritrash like car wars reward you with an awesome story.
Speaking as the one who got to do the write-ups for NOVA's Championship events (because I was winning most of them >:) ): Yeah, Narrative does make for a more-interesting event. It's one thing to say "The guy with ATG scored a perfect 3 on his damage roll", another to say "<*TINK*> .... Dud."

Good points, all.
__________________
"Dale *who*?"

79er

The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course:
1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.
43Supporter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2020, 06:34 PM   #4
juris
 
juris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA
Default Re: Introducing the game

Agree the grenade rules are horrible, especially grenade scatter. The 1 phase per 4" of range rule is just annoying. Just have grenades land immediately no matter how far they travel, and use impact fuses.
juris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 11:46 AM   #5
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Introducing the game

For intro games, I don't usually give hand weapons for the crew. They're just not worth the rules explanation time and effort.
__________________
Dynamax Designs, Designing quality since 2035.

Watch your handling and remember to Drive Offensively!
Magesmiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 02:10 PM   #6
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Introducing the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by juris View Post
Agree the grenade rules are horrible, especially grenade scatter. The 1 phase per 4" of range rule is just annoying. Just have grenades land immediately no matter how far they travel, and use impact fuses.
The only problem I've ever had with the "hang time" rule is: It does tend to render grenades ineffective for anything save area-denial -- the user has to designate where the grenade is supposed to go; the rest of the table has that many phases to Not Be There. So, aside from "projected dropped-weapon" use, I've rarely sees grenades being used.
__________________
"Dale *who*?"

79er

The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course:
1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.
43Supporter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 03:09 PM   #7
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Introducing the game

Grenades, basically use them for anti-personnel (explosive or flechette) to make sure you are playing Car Wars or persistent effects (paint, smoke) to make up for a lack of DWs (but dischargers are probably a better bet).

Some of the weirder ones work better as placed charges (but that is what thermite grenades are for in real life).

We never had an issue with scatter, with a 2" burst effect, someone was always in the wrong place. Keeping track of when they went off wasn't an issue in a PBM game (and the thrower just noted the turn number they would go off in face to face games and revealed it at the appropriate time). We also house ruled that they went off on the phase they were triggered (after however many seconds) rather than always at the end of the turn. That mean a 1 second delay was actually 1 second not 1-1.8 seconds.

We also took advantage of the fact that you could place a grenade within 1/4" (on foot) without any chance of deviation and short tosses can only deviate by 2 squares max (even if thrown from a moving vehicle). If you keep the distances short, you need the delay to clear the area yourself (or to duck behind cover) - again exactly how they are supposed to work. Using walls was also a good way to prevent overthrowing.

Grenades are at least fairly cheap compared to vehicular weapons and creative use of fake grenades keeps people on their toes.

And we probably differ on our interpretation of impact fuses. Some people interpret them to mean that they don't scatter but the rule says they don't "bounce". Since the "scatter" rules actually talk about deviation, we rule they still deviate, they just don't bounce when they hit an obstruction en-route.

Last edited by swordtart; 01-30-2020 at 03:36 PM.
swordtart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 04:00 PM   #8
PeteC
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Introducing the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magesmiley View Post
For intro games, I don't usually give hand weapons for the crew. They're just not worth the rules explanation time and effort.
Yeah, that would be smart but I printed out the car (complete with driver armaments) I designed on Combat Garage and laminated them so that damage and ammo could be marked off with dry-erase markers and now I'm too lazy to do that again, haha.
PeteC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2020, 04:19 PM   #9
Chernobyl
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Default Re: Introducing the game

the 3 phase movement chart was introduced with 5th edition car wars. the only problem with it is that it starts limiting maneuverability if you still limit to one maneuver per phase. you might rule that you can make a second maneuver on phases with more than 2 inches of movement, so long as there is a straight foreward inch between maneuvers.
Chernobyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 08:25 PM   #10
aa88x
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Introducing the game

Scrolling back looking since the COVID hit and I found this thread. We've been playing D&D and Gamma World remotely for the past few months. Some players are in the mid-west, some are on the west coast. It's my turn to GM, and the group is excited about giving Car Wars a go.

I've created an excel spreadsheet, because well quite frankly excel can do anything, to be the game board. We're going to share screens via the video conference technology and I'm going to GM the game remotely. I grabbed little car icons of 8 different colors and have grabbed a large circle with an X in the middle to show the different angles the cars can shoot from.

Week 1 I'm going to give everyone a Killer Kart and run an arena battle. I figure, no gernades, no trikes, no extra rules, just get them started on the basics of driving and shooting a machine gun. Then if they like it each week we will add a few items to make it more and more true Car Wars.

Should be fun!
aa88x is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.