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Old 05-11-2021, 03:27 AM   #31
Anders
 
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Default Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe

I don't want Law and Chaos to be mere synonyms for Good and Evil. I want them both to be screwy in their own ways and the balance between the two to be the most sane choice.
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Old 05-11-2021, 06:55 AM   #32
naloth
 
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Default Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe

Visually, I prefer order to have symmetrical lines and angles while chaos has asymmetrical curves. At the far ends of the spectrum ordered beings will have no curves while totally chaotic beings will be amorphous blobs.
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:52 AM   #33
David Johnston2
 
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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Visually, I prefer order to have symmetrical lines and angles while chaos has asymmetrical curves. At the far ends of the spectrum ordered beings will have no curves while totally chaotic beings will be amorphous blobs.
That's a little extreme for this premise, I think. I have been considering the idea of something involving faceted jewels. Maybe instead of biological compound eyes.
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Old 05-11-2021, 01:32 PM   #34
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Hrnmmm, Perhaps some sort of angelic beings for law, and some sort of spider like beings for chaos....
Who are you? What do you want?

(if the quotes aren't familiar I apologise - it's pop culture, not an attack)
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Old 05-11-2021, 02:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe

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I don't want Law and Chaos to be mere synonyms for Good and Evil. I want them both to be screwy in their own ways and the balance between the two to be the most sane choice.
Maybe Jinn can be law? They are capable of free will and some are good Muslims. A Jinn King would live like a Sultan.
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Old 05-11-2021, 02:58 PM   #36
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Maybe Jinn can be law? They are capable of free will and some are good Muslims. A Jinn King would live like a Sultan.
Would sure fit with the literal genie.
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Old 05-11-2021, 03:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe

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I don't want Law and Chaos to be mere synonyms for Good and Evil. I want them both to be screwy in their own ways and the balance between the two to be the most sane choice.
Have you ever played Shin Megami Tensei? It has Law/Neutral/Chaos alignment, each with its own faction and endings.
Law, represented by the Order of Messiah, is nice at first glance. They preach equality, assisting the weak and so on. It doesn't take you long to realize their extremely authoritarian tendencies, forcing anyone to surrender all their rights for the "common good", and anyone who refuses that is an enemy.
Chaos, represented by the Ring of Gaia, opposes the Order. They believe in self-determination and free will, willing to give their life to protect it. On the flip side, they also believe on "might makes right", so they despise the weak as unfit to exist unless its at the mercy of the mighty.
Neutral is just at it sounds. It refuses both Law's control and Chaos' tyranny, choosing the middle path. It's not necessarily "nice", though, as the mean for this is usually not earning the hearts and minds but destroy both Law and Chaos leadership.
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Old 05-11-2021, 06:08 PM   #38
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Have you ever played Shin Megami Tensei? It has Law/Neutral/Chaos alignment, each with its own faction and endings.
Law, represented by the Order of Messiah, is nice at first glance. They preach equality, assisting the weak and so on. It doesn't take you long to realize their extremely authoritarian tendencies, forcing anyone to surrender all their rights for the "common good", and anyone who refuses that is an enemy.
Chaos, represented by the Ring of Gaia, opposes the Order. They believe in self-determination and free will, willing to give their life to protect it. On the flip side, they also believe on "might makes right", so they despise the weak as unfit to exist unless its at the mercy of the mighty.
Neutral is just at it sounds. It refuses both Law's control and Chaos' tyranny, choosing the middle path. It's not necessarily "nice", though, as the mean for this is usually not earning the hearts and minds but destroy both Law and Chaos leadership.
This is a pretty good thumbnail of how to do it - where both sides have their virtues and vices, and even neutrality requires action. It's probably closer to the roots of "that RPG's" old school law vs. chaos than many takes.
Multipolar alignment is also fun - like angels, demons and squid or, for another example Creator/Chaos/Unlife as factions and order and life are two poles: creator is life/order, chaos is life/-order and unlife as -life/order ... -life/-order isn't so much a faction as everything going down the plug. The three sided conflict allows you to pitch some interesting alliances.
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Old 05-11-2021, 06:56 PM   #39
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Multipolar alignment is also fun - like angels, demons and squid or, for another example Creator/Chaos/Unlife as factions and order and life are two poles: creator is life/order, chaos is life/-order and unlife as -life/order ... -life/-order isn't so much a faction as everything going down the plug. The three sided conflict allows you to pitch some interesting alliances.
Shin Megami Tensei is multipolar! Beyond the Law-Chaos axis, it also has the Light-Dark axis.
It's less well defined than Law-Chaos, though, and it's pretty straightforward. Light tends to be good and Dark is evil.
For example, Sraosha and Amateru are Light-Law, while Demiurge and Seth are Dark-Law. On the other side, you have Ares and Shiva as Light-Chaos and Beelzebub and Loki as Dark-Chaos.
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:57 PM   #40
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Default Re: Lawful counterpart to Sidhe

In Elizabeth Moon's "Paksenarrion" setting, Gird goes to the Gnomes to study law. The Gnomes base their understanding of law on a coldly rationalist understanding of liberty and equality, and evaluate all actions based on whether they result in benefits or harm to others -- whether intended or not.

If an action results in harm to others, then the one harmed should receive compensation in proportion to the harm suffered.

Alternatively, should someone make a contribution to others, then that person should receive rewards in proportion to the benefits delivered.

The Gnomes, in Moon's setting, have no concept of altruism, which causes people make contributions and expect nothing in return, because the contributors find the emotional satisfaction rewarding enough.
Gird learned from the Gnomes how to structure law, but adapted the concepts to human ways of thinking.

Maybe combine that notion of legal balance, with Gnomes as makers of machinery -- which also requires a rationalistic balancing of forces -- and use them as your counterparts to Faerie?
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Last edited by tshiggins; 05-15-2021 at 09:16 PM.
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