Slings!

[jason taylor]

One thing that is hard for me to see is how one can account for the fraction of a second difference between the time from the release and the time the projectile leaves. In principle it does not matter but if one is using a dart instead of a stone or ball one needs to get the right end forward.

One problem I can see in using it as a grenade launcher is that one requires a lot of room and it is likely to attract fire. On the other hand one can do the wind-up behind cover. But there must at least be enough cover to stand up. Or use a spear thrower (the German stick grenade looks like a nice device but the shaft is a bit cumbrous if there has to be more then one and a reusable thrower might have been better).

[Black Leviathan]

Supposedly if you if you wrap the cup around your shoulder the length from your shoulder to your second knuckle is a mechanically optimal length for slinging.

Originally Posted by jason taylor

I always wondered why the sling was not more widespread

Because it's hard. Having learned archery and learned slinging I think they make the Sling much easier to use than it should be in GURPS. If you're a Sheppard with nothing going on all day than watching out for predators and you have hours to practice slinging it's the best weapon in the world. If you have to train someone to use it in a battle next week your own men are going to be hit with sling stones a lot, and in all likelihood some of that freindly fire won't even in in front of the slingers.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Because it's hard.

How hard, I don't know; there are YouTubers who make impressive hits – against stationary targets, that is, and editing out who knows how many misses for every hit.

I know slinging looks ridiculously hard to me. It's not at all, I suspect, like slinging in The Wheel of Time, where farm boys casually use slings to knock flocks of (suspected evil) birds out of the sky. More than the inter-dimensional travel and world-shattering magic-like powers in the books, that's what made me say "well, it is fantasy, after all..." : )

[tbone]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

If the rope is tough enough it will serve as garrote

There must be an Acme Sling-Garrote, guaranteed for both slinging and strangling. How did that one escape the DF/DFRPG equipment list?

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Supposedly if you if you wrap the cup around your shoulder the length from your shoulder to your second knuckle is a mechanically optimal length for slinging.



Because it's hard. Having learned archery and learned slinging I think they make the Sling much easier to use than it should be in GURPS. If you're a Sheppard with nothing going on all day than watching out for predators and you have hours to practice slinging it's the best weapon in the world. If you have to train someone to use it in a battle next week your own men are going to be hit with sling stones a lot, and in all likelihood some of that freindly fire won't even in in front of the slingers.

I guess that makes sense. It would be interesting to know why there is no mention of hoplites carrying it as a sidearm though. At least some of them knew how to use it being farmers, and it did not take up space. There is not even mention of them being specifically forbidden slings, the way Mad Anthony forbade loaded muskets at Stony Point (thus implying the fact that muskets were in fact often loaded).

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by tbone

How hard, I don't know; there are YouTubers who make impressive hits – against stationary targets, that is, and editing out who knows how many misses for every hit.

I know slinging looks ridiculously hard to me. It's not at all, I suspect, like slinging in The Wheel of Time, where farm boys casually use slings to knock flocks of (suspected evil) birds out of the sky. More than the inter-dimensional travel and world-shattering magic-like powers in the books, that's what made me say "well, it is fantasy, after all..." : )

A lot of rounds can be too whom it may concern ones in the direction of the enemy. The main objection is friendly fire which would be a problem in a phalanx. It does not seem to have been a bother with pila but then legions were penny packet phalanxes and there might have been fewer occasions for that sort of thing.

A phalanx would have had few opportunities for use even discounting the friendly fire disadvantage which, I should think was mainly if the rear ranks tried to deliver fire over the heads of comrades. On the other hand it is a way to reply to peltests if they are being harrassed without a chance to close. Even if few could hit anything.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by tbone

How hard, I don't know; there are YouTubers who make impressive hits – against stationary targets, that is, and editing out who knows how many misses for every hit.

The trick to learning to sling is apparently don't try to aim to start. Do whatever motion seems natural and practice that enough to set it into your muscle memory. Once you have your rocks flying off at some *consistent* angle from the way you are facing/stepping, you can aim by facing that angle away from the target.

[shawnhcorey]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

One thing that is hard for me to see is how one can account for the fraction of a second difference between the time from the release and the time the projectile leaves. In principle it does not matter but if one is using a dart instead of a stone or ball one needs to get the right end forward.

Originally Posted by tbone

How hard, I don't know; there are YouTubers who make impressive hits – against stationary targets, that is, and editing out who knows how many misses for every hit.

Originally Posted by malloyd

The trick to learning to sling is apparently don't try to aim to start. Do whatever motion seems natural and practice that enough to set it into your muscle memory. Once you have your rocks flying off at some *consistent* angle from the way you are facing/stepping, you can aim by facing that angle away from the target.

It's no harder than learning to pitch a ball. To do it consistently with power takes practice. And like pitching, look at the target and throw. Know when to let go is done by feel.

The stones and bullets in a sling are thrown sideways. They are placed across the pouch so that when thrown, they will have a backspin to keep them aloft longer. And like a golf ball, they should not be too smooth.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by shawnhcorey

It's no harder than learning to pitch a ball. To do it consistently with power takes practice. And like pitching, look at the target and throw. Know when to let go is done by feel.

The stones and bullets in a sling are thrown sideways. They are placed across the pouch so that when thrown, they will have a backspin to keep them aloft longer. And like a golf ball, they should not be too smooth.

A stone or a bullet surely. Is it possible to do it with a dart?

[swordtart]

I am not a sling expert. I found instructions on how to make a woven sling on the internet and decided to have a go. I have made 4 slings so far and only one managed to estimate the string correctly to make it the "right" length. The other slings were between 1ft and 2ft long (when loaded) as I kept forgetting that then final length of the sling should be double to account for the fact it is doubled in use.

I have not practiced extensively, I just spent a few hours on a beach last summer trying to refill the sea with pebbles. After a few hours I could hit the sea 90% of the time vs. loosing the stone backwards, up the beach or directly upwards (pretty scary with a 2-4 oz pebble). I was trying for distance and after about 5 hours practice over a few days I could consistently drop a hens egg sized pebble directly in front and about 10 ft closer or further than my point of aim (at maybe 100-150 yards).

My 5 year old daughter had a go and whilst perhaps a little less consistent, she was more accurate with the sling than when she threw free hand (tip: when teaching young children a cycling helmet will save some tears).

As someone else stated, not much investment in time is needed to be a credible threat to a blob of people a hundred yards plus in front of you (fear my pebbles of doom). If you can throw a rock, you can probably achieve the same level of accuracy with a sling in about a day (and with much less effort). I was launching a pebble every 5-10 seconds and was far less stiff than the day before when I was hand throwing pebbles half that distance.

Just last week I did a bushcraft day and in the margins showed people how to make a simple sling with jute cord (one of the ones that braids 6 cords into one and then splits into 2 braids of 3 cords in the middle and then re-joins for the other half of the sling). It took on average less than half an hour (and as per usual half the slings were about half as long as they should have been as I got the length wrong again!).

No-one other than I had experience using a sling (I must have at least 20 XP by now). Originally we tried using conkers as I thought they would be a bit safer, but they are too shiny and slid out of the cup before the slings were wound up to speed. In the end we bit the bullet and used pigeon egg sized rough stones from the waters edge. After an hour no-one had failed to get a rock into the lake that was our target. Not exactly sniper standard, but I wouldn't have come anywhere near us.

The trick is to use the right sized rock for you and your sling (which you discover by trial and error). It needs to be rough to prevent it slipping sideways out of the thongs (slings with a cup are more forgiving). A smooth and gentle wind-up is better than a fast (and hence jerky) windup. One full rotation and then release, after a short time it becomes instinctive.

I found underarm slinging more consistent and easier (possibly as the arm is under less stress when it is pointing downwards and you feel the release point more comfortably). In this case clearly the sling cannot be longer than the distance from your hand and the ground. If you sling sideways or diagonally you can manage a longer length.

I recommend having a go - wear a hat. String and rocks are cheap.