4e rules { Sweeping blows by humans and by giants (SM+2) }

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Kromm

You might want to look at Cleaving Strike on p. 10 of Dungeon Fantasy 11: Power-Ups. It's pretty much explicitly the ability to swat lots of people aside by doing knockback or knockdown.

Darn don't have that one.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Well, let's leave the knockback question for later. The thing here was that Sauron didn't do a 360 degree attack, he did a standard side-swing, covering maybe a 60 degree angle. He was probably all out attacking, because the targets were stunned by his terror. The thing is, he was hitting foes like a scythe mows down wheat (only he was doing so one handed).

Aside from DF 11 what about just calling it Rapid Strike or Extra Attack, probably with AOA Double to hit multiple people? The knb and such well never seen that image, but sounds like a high die attack anyhow so that could cover that. Maybe Imbuements also.

Also Push used with the weapon and maybe Sumo Shove adapted to Mace skill?

[Athanbeli]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Basic Set, Page 400, Large-Area Injury section

So, you're implying that anything that causes large-area injury should be considered an area attack, ok?

In this case, this would mean that...
A SM +6 Allosaurus has a hard time trying to hit humans (-6 to hit), while...
A SM +7 T-Rex hits them so easily. Just target an area, and its enemies can only hope to dive out of the area.
From very hard to very easy, in just one step?!? Sounds so weird to me.

My guess is that a sweeping attack from a large creature should be treated as a melee variation of the Rapid Fire rules. Not that I can conceive a definite solution myself...

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by Dustin

If the giant is big enough, there's an option to move through multiple enemies' hexes:This can be accomplished not only by moving forward, but also by facing changes (use the head's hex) that sweep the body through the map.

I've never quite understood this part of the rules, actually. Does this mean that a boar (SM+1, 2 hexes) can slam multiple opponents per round just by moving around, taking steps, etc., in addition to any attacks? Do these slams hit automatically? Can they be defended against normally? Can you use a shield to block a slam like this, even if it's from a truly gargantuan creature? Can you dodge an attack like this, even if the creature is passing through not only your hex but also those adjacent to yours (I have trouble imagining where you're dodging to in this case)?

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Gnome

I've never quite understood this part of the rules, actually. Does this mean that a boar (SM+1, 2 hexes) can slam multiple opponents per round just by moving around, taking steps, etc., in addition to any attacks? Do these slams hit automatically? Can they be defended against normally? Can you use a shield to block a slam like this, even if it's from a truly gargantuan creature? Can you dodge an attack like this, even if the creature is passing through not only your hex but also those adjacent to yours (I have trouble imagining where you're dodging to in this case)?

Almost all of this is answered on page 404.

That page does introduce a new issue. It says if you're 3 SMs bigger than the target then damage is large area but page 400 says you have to be 7 SMs bigger to do large area.

[Kromm]

The three SM difference matters for trampling, where your whole body is overrunning the target. The seven SM difference is for melee attacks, where just your hand or foot or horn is striking the target. Generally, extremities are four SM steps smaller than entire bodies, with a few rare exceptions.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by lexington

Almost all of this is answered on page 404.

That page does introduce a new issue. It says if you're 3 SMs bigger than the target then damage is large area but page 400 says you have to be 7 SMs bigger to do large area.

The attack probably only has to be 3 SM larger, or the Attacker 7.... Basically a Gain't might SM 7, but their foot is only SM 3 etc... is my gut interpretative of the difference.

And means Allosaurus Nautral Biter feature that makes ther bite attack a Bigger also count just as much as the T-Rex against a SM 0.


if coure Neither hunter was actually deigned to HUNT SM 0 prey

[Kromm]

That's basically it. The rules treat trampling by a huge creature (three or more SM difference) as a collision between the entire undercarriage of the larger creature with the entire body of the smaller one. They do not treat it as a variation on a kick, because the huge creature isn't targeting a small subsection of its victim's body with its feet, but has enough contact area to crush its victim's entire body at once. Remember that this difference is consistent with a 10:1 surface area ratio in favor of the larger creature!

[Athanbeli]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

And means Allosaurus Nautral Biter feature that makes ther bite attack a Bigger also count just as much as the T-Rex against a SM 0.


if coure Neither hunter was actually deigned to HUNT SM 0 prey

Well, ok. Simply, I named those two as examples. I might have just said 'a SM+6 Creature opposed to a SM+7 creature'.
I have no idea what their SM should be, actually.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

Well, ok. Simply, I named those two as examples. I might have just said 'a SM+6 Creature opposed to a SM+7 creature'.
I have no idea what their SM should be, actually.

All the SM+6 Created needs to is pick up a SM+3 Weapon and it gets the Benifite... unless it has a feature like said Natrial Biter that make's their natural attack bigger than the human equivalent.

Also consider this... a SM 7 created tend to be 10 yards Bigger than a SM 6 creature, yeah the 'sudden change' isn't so sudden

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by lexington

Almost all of this is answered on page 404.

That page does introduce a new issue. It says if you're 3 SMs bigger than the target then damage is large area but page 400 says you have to be 7 SMs bigger to do large area.

I don't see how B404 answers any of my questions. B404 has the rules for trampling, which appears to be a special kind of melee attack.
B392: "When a figure two or more hexes in size moves through a smaller one, treat it as a slam." My questions were essentially about this rule.