Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Anders

Well, the Seven virtues are (from Wikipedia): Charity, Chastity, Diligence, Humility, Kindness and Temperance.

That's six. The list I am used to is faith, hope, charity or love (three theological virtues), justice, prudence, temperance, and fortitude or courage (four natural virtues). Here is the relevant article in the Catholic Encyclopaedia

[Verjigorm]

Also, what about blessings to empower knights? "He teacheth my hands to war, he lendeth strength to my fingers". "He is my hightower, my safe place". The bible isn't quiet when it comes to war.

I'm not actually that well read up on Charlemagne's time, but I wonder: is there any reason to believe in a warlike Man of God? I'm talking someone like Odo or Adhemar? Odo was a Bishop, and the half-brother of William the Conqueror. He fought on the battlefield in full mail with a cudgel, I'm not sure if he's also depicted with a sword at his waist. But Adhemar, the Papal Legate for the Crusade is known to have fought in the lines using a sword.

We are centuries before either men, but is there any reason to suspect equally martial bishops during Charle's time?

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

I'm not actually that well read up on Charlemagne's time, but I wonder: is there any reason to believe in a warlike Man of God? I'm talking someone like Odo or Adhemar? Odo was a Bishop, and the half-brother of William the Conqueror. He fought on the battlefield in full mail with a cudgel, I'm not sure if he's also depicted with a sword at his waist. But Adhemar, the Papal Legate for the Crusade is known to have fought in the lines using a sword.

We are centuries before either men, but is there any reason to suspect equally martial bishops during Charle's time?

One of the twelve paladins attested in multiple sources is Turpin, archbishop of Reims. In the Chanson de Roland he had to discard his lance when it got the fifth corpse impaled on it because the added weight made it unwieldy.

[Sword-dancer]

Look for Saint Ulrich Bischop of Augsburg, he organised the defense of the City against the Magyars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_of_Augsburg

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

One of the twelve paladins attested in multiple sources is Turpin, archbishop of Reims. In the Chanson de Roland he had to discard his lance when it got the fifth corpse impaled on it because the added weight made it unwieldy.

Ya know, those western Horsemen were not very modest, were they? The clove millstones in twain with swords, blew trumpets until their ears burst and the choked on their own blood, and as you mention, impale 5 men on a lance.

Of course, we get equally impressive reports of them from the other side. They so terrify their foes that they can lead an army to victory while STONE DEAD, their ability to walk around, festooned with arrows, and their ability to smash aside any resistance offered to their charge.

Doughty men, certainly.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Also, what about blessings to empower knights? "He teacheth my hands to war, he lendeth strength to my fingers". "He is my hightower, my safe place". The bible isn't quiet when it comes to war.

I'm not actually that well read up on Charlemagne's time, but I wonder: is there any reason to believe in a warlike Man of God? I'm talking someone like Odo or Adhemar? Odo was a Bishop, and the half-brother of William the Conqueror. He fought on the battlefield in full mail with a cudgel, I'm not sure if he's also depicted with a sword at his waist. But Adhemar, the Papal Legate for the Crusade is known to have fought in the lines using a sword.

We are centuries before either men, but is there any reason to suspect equally martial bishops during Charle's time?

Well, the Bible isn't silent... but a lot of people would say that the new teachings of Christ - turn the other cheek, do not resist evil, for instance, supersedes the Old Testament. I'm thinking that the more martial stuff belongs to Islam, since Muhammad was clearly a general as well as a prophet.

Edit: Thinking about it some more, you're probably right. I'll consider this tonight, while I sleep.

[Not]

You could go to a (later) source: Orlando Furioso has plenty on Roland as a fighting Christian. Also he's impervious to wounds and has a sword cut from a dragon's tooth.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Also, what about blessings to empower knights? "He teacheth my hands to war, he lendeth strength to my fingers". "He is my hightower, my safe place". The bible isn't quiet when it comes to war.

Yes. Levels of Striking ST, or a Warrior Skill Talent, or both, in either case with Limitations to change them from permanent innate abilities to conditional supernatural gifts.

Or even Weapon Master for a more powerful case. All of that makes more sense, in the historical and mythological context, than an Abrahamic god who only supports true pacifists.

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

We are centuries before either men, but is there any reason to suspect equally martial bishops during Charle's time?

Unless I failed my Eidetic Memory roll, a warrior Bishop is actually mentioned, as a prominent companion of Charlemagne, in the very AD&D supplement that Anders is using as inspiration for his campaign. I even seem to recall that he's named Turpin.

And generally, yes, you'd expect more warrior Bishops the further you go back in time, and probably also the more Germanic the culture is - both the Saxons and the Normans were Germanics.

[Anders]

An interesting campaign might be a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. How long would such a journey take? Any ideas?

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Anders

An interesting campaign might be a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. How long would such a journey take? Any ideas?

Months. The Great German Crusade of 1064 didn't reach Jerusalem until April 1065.