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Old 09-10-2021, 12:02 PM   #71
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Default Re: Magic of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
So, yes technically, Buddhism doesn't look to the dawn of creation as a better time with things getting worse aa time goes on - rather it sees the whole rebirth system as horrid.
"Technically" nothing. It's a modern major religion that does not subscribe to the premise of inevitable decline found in Tolkien's works.
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:05 PM   #72
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Default Re: Magic of Middle Earth

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I'm no expert, but I have not heard that Judiasm particularly describes a steady and inevitable decline over time, and certainly many old religions no longer much followed frequently believed in cyclicalism.
I think you are forgetting Daniel 2:32-45 which follows the Greek concept of Gold > Silver > Bronze > Iron and adding in Iron and Clay.
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:14 PM   #73
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Default Re: Magic of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
I think you are forgetting Daniel 2:32-45 which follows the Greek concept of Gold > Silver > Bronze > Iron and adding in Iron and Clay.
I'm not forgetting it, because I never knew it. But pointing out an individual feature is not really useful here. It's not that each particular thing you look at must become lesser; it's that the world as a whole becomes lesser.

When Aragorn reestablishes Arnor and unites it with Gondor, this isn't a sign that decline has been reversed. It's only a local resistance to the decline. Overall, the world is still in decline. The elves are leaving or fading. The dwarves can no longer match the skills of their ancestors. The Entwives are lost. And while the hobbits are temporarily flourishing, they too will eventually become very hard to find. The great forests are disappearing, and Bombadil has confined himself to a tiny area of mastery. The realm of King Elessar is only an echo of the glory and power of Numenor. This is Middle-earth in decline. It's deeper and more profound than a failing field of mana.
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Old 09-10-2021, 07:47 PM   #74
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Default Re: Magic of Middle Earth

I think one reason for that is that Middle-earth doesn't give the impression of being about "mana" - rather, Tolkien talks as if in Middle-earth, at least, things in general are magic, rather than there being some separate "mana".
Quote:
“Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?"

"A man may do both," said Aragorn. "For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!"
Also the Elves of Lorien:
Quote:
The Elves next unwrapped and gave to each of the Company the clothes they had brought. For each they had provided a hood and cloak, made according to his size, of the light but warm silken stuff that the Galadhrim wove. It was hard to say of what colour they were: grey with the hue of twilight under the trees they seemed to be; and yet if they were moved, or set in another light, they were green as shadowed leaves, or brown as fallow fields by night, dusk-silver as water under the stars. Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.

'Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.

'I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves. 'They are fair garments, and the web is good, for it was made in this land. They are elvish robes certainly, if that is what you mean. Leaf and branch, water and stone: they have the hue and beauty of all these things under the twilight of Lorien that we love; for we put the thought of all that we love into all that we make. Yet they are garments, not armour, and they will not turn shaft or blade. But they should serve you well: they are light to wear, and warm enough or cool enough at need. And you will find them a great aid in keeping out of the sight of unfriendly eyes, whether you walk among the stones or the trees. You are indeed high in the favour of the Lady! For she herself and her maidens wove this stuff; and never before have we clad strangers in the garb of our own people.'
(They totally are magic cloaks, as we or a hobbit would use the word. You could argue that the Elves are just so much in the habit of magic that they use it in everything without even recognising that it's anything separate from just "the way you make a cloak"; but the other interpretation certainly fits the books too.)

So the grander the world is, the more "magic" is possible; the two can't be separated.
If you're talking in terms of the Great Song, the whole world comes from the Great Song. Nothing is mundane, everything is created by God and may be expected to produce miracles given the right encouragement.
The makers of famous magic items, like Feanor or Celebrimbor, are called out as being great craftsmen who achieved wonders because of the work and artistry they put into their work, not just great magicians; it sometimes seems, though I'm not sure (working largely from memory), to be implied that the items are magical by virtue of how great an artist their maker was and how much he loved his work.

Getting back to the subject of game mechanics, this would mean that spell mechanics that involve a roll against another skill, such as Singing or Jeweller, as well as or instead of a spell skill would suit Middle-earth well. Low Magic sounds, from its description, tailor-made for this, and I've seen its relative Hedge Magic recommended elsewhere for Middle-Earth GURPS games.
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