Pinning down a fix

[hcobb]

Minimal pin fix:
An attempt to pin is a contest of 3/DX between the two figures with the following modifiers:
Add one die to the number of dice a figure needs to roll for each level of Unarmed Combat the foe has above theirs.
Add one die for each five points of ST the foe has above their own (round up so even an advantage of one point of ST adds a die)
To complete the pin the pinner needs to make their own roll and make it by more that the target makes theirs.
Once the pin is in place the pinner may attempt to tie up the target by making another contest. If they fail this roll the target escapes the pin and if they make the roll by more than the target does then they tie them up.


Note that in a contest between a very strong untalented figure against a weak high level UC figure neither is likely to pin the other.

[Axly Suregrip]

I have not tried this but my initial reaction is this is good.

I do have questions about this line:

Originally Posted by hcobb

Once the pin is in place the pinner may attempt to tie up the target by making another contest.

Is there a requirement for having rope to do the tie up? And must the rope have been readied before hand? I mean once you have some one pinned, then having to get rope out may release him/her. If not rope, then what or what else in addition to rope? What about a sacks? (reference: The Hobbit story with the troll putting dwarves in sacks... if I remember that correctly)

BTW, I had an encounter where the players are trying to capture small creatures with sacks. I should look up what I did with that but I expect it is not very different to what you did. I don't recall if I based it on pinning or not but it was a two step plan like yours. Grab then bag.

[Shostak]

Some adjustment should be made for size. A small 1-hex figure should be at a distinct disadvantage over a large 1-hex figure quite separate from ST differences. Tying someone up this way should be extremely difficult.

Here is my more thorough remake of HTH and pinning.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Here is my more thorough remake of HTH and pinning.

Needs some rewording. You can attack an adjacent figure while disengaged yourself, and usually at a DX bonus for facing.

"Grappling is a new attack option for all engaged figures" Whataboutism grappling from behind? One arm around the throat and a dagger in the other hand say. (This looks like a HTH attack to me personally, given that you're literally closer than arm's length at this knife point.)

[phiwum]

So he changes the word "engaged" to "engaging". I guess that would fix it.

Although, an "engaging figure" has a different meaning in most contexts.

[hcobb]

I just don't see the visualization of grappling outside of HTH. Are you really holding somebody whose center of mass is four feet from yours?

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Needs some rewording.

I tightened up the wording a bit to simplify things.

[hcobb]

The standing grapples have two figures standing in one hex with long weapons.


That's fine, but GURPS is over that way.

[Shaira]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Minimal pin fix:
An attempt to pin is a contest of 3/DX between the two figures with the following modifiers:
Add one die to the number of dice a figure needs to roll for each level of Unarmed Combat the foe has above theirs.
Add one die for each five points of ST the foe has above their own (round up so even an advantage of one point of ST adds a die)
To complete the pin the pinner needs to make their own roll and make it by more that the target makes theirs.
Once the pin is in place the pinner may attempt to tie up the target by making another contest. If they fail this roll the target escapes the pin and if they make the roll by more than the target does then they tie them up.


Note that in a contest between a very strong untalented figure against a weak high level UC figure neither is likely to pin the other.

Sounds good. I'd say being Pinned removes your option to take any action other than trying to break the pin. The pinning character has limited options, such as maintaining the Pin (maybe automatically adding one die to the attempt to break the Pin) or damaging the Pinned foe, by throttling, dislocating limbs, tearing muscle, etc. I'd say they could automatically inflict hth damage each turn during a Pin. I think maybe tying up the Pinned victim might require a roll within the Pin, with the victim breaking free if you fail.

I can imagine this working well for giant spiders tying characters up in webs. 😁

I agree that size should be a factor too.

Cheers,

Sarah

[Shostak]

The problem of the victim of the pin being "held helpless" for two turns minimum (permanently if the pinner is stronger than the victim) still needs to be dealt with. That is just too powerful of an effect.