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03-11-2021, 08:56 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
I personally like the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling a bit more for its simplicity, but there are some points which I'm wondering are because of space requirements/simplicity or balance.
Constriction Attack inflicts double CP in Technical Grappling. This seems gone in Fantastic Grappling. The Binding advantage is also not mentioned. Should we assume it just inflicts CP as normal? What about stuff like spider-web or anything with layering? Should we just assume there is no upper CP limit for it? Also, Engulfing doubled CP inflicted, do you still think this should be a thing? Same with Binding having DR/Control Resistance equal to level/3. I don't see any mention of how much CR inflicted by grappling with weapons either, or the max CR. Technical Grappling had a bunch of rules about leverage? Anything else which didn't really get transferred?
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"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared" Last edited by RedMattis; 03-11-2021 at 09:00 AM. |
03-11-2021, 10:10 AM | #2 | ||||||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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We tried to distill it down to its essence, remove the special-case rules that made it more complex than needed. Quote:
The quick-version of Strangle in FDG returns to this concept, and Constriction attack in FDG just says "yah, you can do this by crushing the BODY, not just the NECK." It's simpler, requires no special cases, and closer to both the Basic Set and the (more pertinent) rules for Suffocation on Exploits p. 70. one of the reasons for the extra CP in the original TG was the requirement to (almost) always spend CP for damage. You'll notice that's not always enforced in FDG, though it's always optional. While it worked as a mechanic, narratively it was always jarring. Quote:
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Control Resistance is not a feature of most weapons. Special items like handcuffs, sure (see It's a Trap again). The maximum CR will depend on the device. Cuffs sufficient to entrap a ST 50 giant will probably have CR of 25 or even more. Grappling with weapons is now a bit of a switch. Some weapons (most weapons, since you can "grapple" with a sword or shield using the Weapon/Shield Bind concept, it's just your foe can escape from that kind of grapple simply by backing up) enable you to grapple with them, from a distance. CP rolled is set by your thrust damage, and Judo or Melee Weapon gives boosts for skill. It would be entirely plausible for a GM to say "Hmm...a garotte is a purpose-built grappling weapon, so we're going to base it on the Wrestling progression instead of Judo." Returning to the beginning: Keeping it simple was the goal. The Chaotic GM has a great piece on how you can do just about every Technique in TG with FDG for those who want more detail.
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03-11-2021, 10:58 AM | #3 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared" |
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03-11-2021, 11:01 AM | #4 |
MIB
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
You roll thrust appropriate for your ST + Lifting ST based on the Judo or Melee Weapon progression as per page 3 of FDG. The non-control damage of weapons is not used for anything.
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03-11-2021, 11:28 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
I've used both in campaigns and I think it was in my AEON supers game where we (Doug and I) started stripping down TG to be simpler for the other players. I know we were using some ideas Peter Dell'Orto had and eventually Doug wrote up Dungeon Grappling. FDG didn't come around until the next campaign where we used it instead of the base rules from then on.
I've probably used it more than any GM that isn't Doug at this point as I've run hundreds of sessions and it was adopted for use before it was released to the public. It's a good system and it mirrors how grappling really works (and you don't have to worry about things like "Grip ST") and it's simple. You don't always get those two in the same package, much less well-built to boot.
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03-11-2021, 11:19 AM | #6 | ||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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03-11-2021, 12:11 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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Anyway, does strangling take an action, or it is a free action anyone can do it when they grapple the right location? It is a bit unclear to me based on what FDG says.
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"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared" |
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03-11-2021, 12:53 PM | #8 | ||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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03-12-2021, 07:55 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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but I guess MA116 offset that by giving it some new boosts like unpenalized hands-free grappling techniques using torso, which Basic Set didn't exactly say... though MA did also require Double-Jointed for that, which boosts DJ and CA both in a way. |
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03-15-2021, 01:19 PM | #10 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling
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I'm tempted to do something similar for an arachne/drider-like character, letting them buy a technique to use legs for grappling/assisting with grappling. Perhaps a Technique defaulting to <unarmed skill>-3 or something. Technical Grappling had rules for leg-grappling, but Fantastic Dungeon Grappling is lacking something like that. I'd really like to see a bit of a comfortable in-between of the over-complicated Technical Grappling, and the rather bare-bones Dungeon Grappling. Quote:
I'm currently trying to decide between using Striking-ST for grappling instead (I already price it at 2/points level instead of 1/point level), or counting Lifting ST as `Lifting-ST*2 - 10`. Both have pros and cons. Striking ST is simple, and makes the scaling less weird. It also makes it easier to make a KYOS Lifting-ST 25 creature wrestle believably by simply giving it a lot more Striking-ST than Lifting-ST. Could probably do Striking-ST (Wrestling only, -30%) or something too. Lifting-ST keeps the idea of wrestling being more based around your "slow" strength though, while using Striking-ST essentially creatings 'Lifting-ST', 'Striking-ST', and 'Wrestling-ST' :\ Quote:
I don't mind Cinematic Martial artists (or Infinite's vampire who has super-strength) one-hand choking out someone, but they should probably pay for some sort of technique. Or at least require something like the Trained by Master advantage. As it is there isn't really a reason to pick up stuff like the Constriction Attack. I mean, compared to just getting 4 levels of Wrestling it is a really really weak pick.
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Tags |
armed grappling, dungeon grappling, fantastic grappling, martial arts, technical grappling |
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