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Old 05-22-2011, 02:06 AM   #61
Pragmatic
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

I don't know if it's canonical, but in either the Alliance for Progress website or Contacting Aliens (don't remember which...), it's said that Retired patrons have taken to visiting the Tandu as annoying and nosy visitors. And the Tandu, under the stress, have snapped a few times and killed several.

The Galactic Institutes have threatened fines several times, but have backed down when the Tandu have made it known that they're not going to pay.

So--for now--the Tandu are too powerful for the Institutes to shut down. Not without the support of the moderate majority. But they moderate majority tend to consider things over tens of thousands of years, is the impression I get.
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:17 AM   #62
Gold & Appel Inc
 
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Not quite. At one point in Startide Rising, the Tandu use a nerve whip to try to force an Acceptor to change behavior. The Acceptor itself muses about 'punishment' that can cause them to change their actions, they don't enjoy pain...exactly. The Acceptor specifically muses that 'punishment' can alter their behavior, but at the same time it finds wonder in it.
Must've missed that part on my skim-ahead... Just need to strike the "at least," though, as HPT gives a mere +3 to resist that sort of coercion, which ultra-tech methods can surely overcome...
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:43 PM   #63
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
I don't know if it's canonical, but in either the Alliance for Progress website or Contacting Aliens (don't remember which...), it's said that Retired patrons have taken to visiting the Tandu as annoying and nosy visitors. And the Tandu, under the stress, have snapped a few times and killed several.
I just pulled down my copy of Contacting Aliens, and I think the visitor killing is something taken to a logical end by A4P, as Contacting doesn't mention it specifically, but it does have this: "Ideally, you should not converse with a Tandu without witnesses -or at all. They sometimes bite impulsively, and justify it later." -pp. 121. So they might have snapped and killed a few visitors (or just gotten hungry, "..they prefer to dismember live game, and have been known to do this to members of sapient species"), but then they claimed self-defense or something later.

Quote:
The Galactic Institutes have threatened fines several times, but have backed down when the Tandu have made it known that they're not going to pay.
The Tandu are under appeal from the Institutes (Uplift and Library mainly), but it mainly looks like it's because they won't reveal their files on their clients. In regards to other sophonts, it just seems that common sense is to just steer clear of them, because they're nervous in general, as xenophobic as they are.

On the Acceptors, just looking at the pic of them in CA, they seem to have a really thick exoskeleton (as compared, for example to how thick a Tandu exoskeleton looks), so they might have been a fallow species with a very high pain threshold to begin with, and only become more armored and insensitive over time -if you keep in mind the Tandu trait to just randomly bite now, I'm sure they were terrors as pre-sapients. So Acceptors might still recognize noxious stimuli, just not really be affected by it, hence the use of nerve whips to even get their attention, but they don't seem to be overly bothered.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:34 PM   #64
Pragmatic
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

Just an FYI: The A4P website is gone (again, and again, and again...), but there's an archived copy at here.
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:29 PM   #65
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

What are the steps that aren't included in Gurps Space, that are in Uplift? Are they in the new issue of Pyramid, that's about aliens? What are Ur-species? I'm thinking about buying Uplift.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:19 AM   #66
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What are the steps that aren't included in Gurps Space, that are in Uplift?
I made a very small investigation into this, actually.

ST/DX/HT => ST (Space 151); DX/HT did not make the transfer
Racial skills and racial skill bonuses did not make the transfer
Environment => Habitat (Space 143)
Movement Type => Locomotion (Space 149)
Home Gravity => Gravity
Symmetry => Symmetry (Space 154)
# of Limbs => # of Limbs (Space 154)
Posture (e.g., "quadraped" or "semi-upright") is part of the text
Hands and Feet might have been part of the text
Diet => Trophic Level (Space 143)
Metabolism (e.g., hyperactive) didn't make it into Space, that I could see
Society => Social (Space 168)
Size & Build => Size (Space 151); Build didn't make it
Food Chain didn't make it (e.g., "top predator" vs "second-tier predator," and the psychological results of that distinction)
Activity Cycle didn't make it
Reproduction => Sexes (Space 161)
Weapons didn't make it
Senses => Senses (Space 164)
Communications didn't seem to make it
Mental Abilities (e.g., "latent telekinetic") didn't make it (in Uplift, not many first-tier races have psionics, but they're almost all served by psionic races)
Personality Traits => Traits (Space 169)
IQ => Intelligence (Space 168)

I don't claim this is a complete list. But Space is a "toolkit," so quite a lot of it is left up to the GM to "fill in the details," whereas Uplift gives you tables to either roll on or to select from. And almost every item in Uplift has a chance of altering the psychology of the ur-species (i.e., the traits).

As for actual "Uplift," the rules aren't in Space, or even in Bio-Tech. So you'll only find those rules in GURPS Uplift. And GURPS Uplift is almost entirely certain to NOT make the jump to pdf format (since it requires licensing, something that the small profit margins of e23 doesn't much allow), so once all the "dead trees" copies are gone, you're going to be stuck bidding on eBay or paying outrageous prices on Amazon to get a copy.

Here's the preview page for GURPS Uplift, including the table of contents (so you can see all these categories, above), introduction, and the first page of the Jophur/Traeki entry in the list of aliens.

Note that it gives a LOT of information about the post-Streaker situation on Jijo (the planet that's the setting of the second trilogy).

Quote:
Are they in the new issue of Pyramid, that's about aliens?
Not that I saw, but I made a quick glance-through.

Quote:
What are Ur-species? I'm thinking about buying Uplift.
An "ur-species" is an animal, which has been determined to be a candidate for Uplift. It's the "clay" from which the future fully-sentient galactic member race will emerge.

So, for example, dolphins. They're an "ur-species." And, after about another couple thousand years of genetic tinkering, memetic engineering, and crafting of a society, they might emerge as a race of spaceship pilots, poets, and performing artists. The wild animal is the "ur-species," the galactic member race is the final result.

It's a good book, full of lots of interesting details. Look for the "Alliance for Progress" website (gone with the loss of geocities, but an archive copy is out there somewhere... well, I guess here is as good a place to look as anywhere, though I suggest saving as much of this to your hard drive as possible, given how many times the A4P site has disappeared!) for more fan-created background (including some 3E info on a campaign called "Grey Matters"--here).

Bonus material for GURPS Uplift (There's more out there, but I can't find it right now...)

There's also two short stories on David Brin's website (one a prequel, dealing with the origins of the dolphin uplift project; one a sequel, dealing with the post-Streaker Jijo situation, when some dolphins... well, find out for yourself! :-P), the Contacting Aliens book, and the David Brin listserv (where you can email questions and comments, and expect to get a reply within weeks from other fans; it's not very active, I'm afraid).
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #67
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain View Post
What are the steps that aren't included in Gurps Space, that are in Uplift? Are they in the new issue of Pyramid, that's about aliens? What are Ur-species? I'm thinking about buying Uplift.
Pragmatic beat me to it, but what he has is a really good rundown of all the stuff in Uplift that isn't in Space. Not to mention some of the traits you can end up with are defined a bit more deeply in Uplift than in Space or Compendium I.

If you're interested in it, buy it now, while they're still relatively easy and cheap to get. There was a used copy in a comic store near where I work that was for $25, but I suspect that price will only go up, since there doesn't seem like there's any plans for another edition. Ebay is cheaper.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:29 PM   #68
Pragmatic
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

The older version (which doesn't include the Jijo stuff) seems to be a LOT cheaper (like 40% of the newer version).

But yeah, go for the newer version.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:12 AM   #69
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

If you're going to get one, you have to get it for the Jijo stuff though. There's a bit of story that goes with it that completely makes the section. (Though I wish we knew what other galactics landed there when the galaxy was cut off, not just the Jophur.)
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:04 PM   #70
Centisteed
 
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Default Re: GURPS Uplift

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Originally Posted by nick012000 View Post
Has anyone made an automated creature generator yet? I'm half-tempted to create one. Probably a Java application with one button and a text feild. Hit the button, and it rolls the dice, then it wades through a if statements to determine what it does, and prints the results on the text feild.
Have you heard of seventhsanctum.com? They have an alien
race generator, among many other random generators.
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