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Old 06-24-2012, 11:56 AM   #11
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

Clearly staffing levels are a bit of a black art (my own 100:1 was based on my misreading my own post, it shouls have been 10:1 from the O2 numbers reduced to 50:1 for economic reasons).

I take your points about consessions being franchises and could therefore be factored out of the calculations. Since many of the 2500 in the O2 could well be franchise staff I guess I don't really have a leg to stand on.

If your experience says 50 staff for an 8500 audience is reasonable I am happy to accept that ratio of additional staff when an event is put on.

I'd still like to see a hard value on the number of permanent employees as well and they need to be accounted for (even on those days when no events are running). It is likely many of them will be on shifts and for some duties (especially security) you'll need three times the staff that you see on duty at any specific time.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

Unfortunately, the full time staff for Sullivan is part of a conglomerate... I know they have a dozen janitorial staff, but they're shared with Ben Boke Ice Arena (on the same grounds), and the 3+ groundskeepers were shared with those and the neighboring baseball and football fields last I heard... I know there are at least three office staff for the complex, as well.

Here's my thinking on salary from that fixed full-timer breakdown:
At 4 events a week, and $1000 per event, that's $4000 per week. Probably 1@$400, 2@$300, 4@$250, and10@$200 - mostly janitorial and grounds.

Now, AADA probably takes a cut, and sponsored events improve the card, not reduce ticket prices. (That's how it works in local pro wrestling, at least.) And I do agree there will be sponsored AN runs... but the classic killer kart local AN can be run on even small-town budgets sans sponsorship. Without an entry fee, and without risking the grocery-getter.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

Maybe the participation award can be that you're issued (and get to keep in lieu of a fee) a set of Body Armor? (Or a PFE if you prefer?) Surely the arena can cut a deal on a bulk purchase so this isn't much more than $100 or whatever (especially if they're all emblazoned with giant sponsor logos).

Speaking of which, another thought on the economics -- maybe each first-time contestant is required to sign a sponsorship agreement. At the sponsor's option, you may be required to showcase their logos for your next N (5?) duels and they get first right to bring you on beyond that (e.g. if you get another offer, they can choose to match it or let you take it). In return, the sponsor pays the arena, who lets you take your salvage and whatever. So it's a legally complex deal, but the typical amateur night contestant just signs on the "sign here if you want salvage rights" line, and figures they'd be delighted to have the problem of which sponsor's colorful crap they're legally obligated to wear 5 duels down the road.

I mean, if one of the unstated goals here is for the sponsors to ID some talent, lock it in, man, don't leave it on the table...
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

If I were an arena manager putting on an amateur night I would use vehicles I had on hand, i.e. salvage (damaged components and partially loaded weapons). You would probably only see a stock-design match if it was sponsored by a manufacturer. (As an added twist, not necessarily a car manufacturer, you could have identical armament on different chassis, an all-metal armor duel ect.)

Before computer aided car designers this would have been way too much work, very doable now though (thanks ammulder for your own excellent program, which I now use exclusively.)
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:25 PM   #15
Lord Carnifex
 
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

I would suspect that advertising revenue is being overlooked. I'd suspect that ever car and every square inch of non-practical surface in the arena will have advertising. Colorcommentary will be interrupted with 10, 15, and 30 second spots and name drops. And while official divisional competition is where the national chains and big corporations buy up all the space, the local amateur night is where the small-time local companies like Joe's Garage, Sally's Diner, and Hank's Hardware will be able to buy ads at reasonable prices.

I'd imagine the night will show up on one of the local TV station's broadcasting even if it doesn't go nationwide. And they'll be happy to sell ads there, too, and cut the arena in for a slice.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:57 AM   #16
swordtart
 
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

Whilst I am sure there will be advertising, I think it's value will be comparatively low for small arenas (and will increse exponentially with arena size).

If the local bar puts an advert on the hoardings, the value of that advert is measured directly on the extra profits generated by it minus any cost to place it. How many EXTRA drinks are they going to sell. If we imagine 50% of patrons of the arena go to the bar anyway advertising could at most encourage the remaining 50% to go. The usual hit rate for advertising is 1-10%, so we'll say 20% extra. Of our small 10K seat stadium that is 2000 people. If they spend an average $10 that is $20K in revenue. Lets say 50% of that is profit once the extra overheads of accomodating an additional 2000 patrons is taken into account. That is still only 10K. For the advert to be profitable the bar must pay less than 10K for it.

For my flea-pit arenas the numbers are going to be 400 out of the 2000 gate, spending $5 (as it is all a bit depressed) that's only $2000 for a total profit of $1000. That isn't going to pay for free cars.

The number of adverts will obviously make a difference, but advert saturation will mean most people will only tend to be affected by one.

If local cinemas are anything to go by, advertising is not a great money spinner.
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

Local cinemas here make a decent turn on adverts...
an online source lists $30 per screen per week for a single up of 15 seconds duration during the pre-movie show.

Putting that into 1981 US$... it's about $15... I'd expect about the same rates apply to AADA events. Call it $1 per second of screen time on the big monitors... between matches. Alternating trivia, arena news, and adverts on the big screen over the arena.

Now, a typical duel might last 30 seconds itself... but the hype...

Script
hh:mm:ss
00:00:00 Announcer (A): "Ladies and Gentlemen! Welcome to tonight's big event! For your safety, and for the comfort of those around you....

00:05:00 A: Now, Stand up and Holler for tonight's Amateurs!
00:05:29 video of gate A. Driver stands next to killer kart.
00:05:30 A: "From Wyandotte, we have Jim Bilski. Age 21, 165 pounds, 5' 7". He'll be driving car number 1 tonight."
00:05:44 video of gate B
00:05:45 A: "From Allen Park, Joey Starzetskij. Age 26, 123 pounds, 6' even. He'll be driving car number two tonight."
00:05:59 gate C video
00:05:45 A: "From Allen Park, Abdul Abuhabi. Age 18, 185 pounds, 6' 4". He'll be driving car number 3 tonight."
00:06:15 gate D...
00:06:30 gate E...
00:06:45 gate F...
00:07:00 Video feed cues to AADA filler.
00:07:00 A: "Now, for a few words from the AADA"
00:07:05 roll AADA 1 minute local standings
00:08:05 roll 30s commercials
00:08:35 A: "Thank-you, Mister Marshal. Now, please check your stubbs for tonights 'Scavenger chance' number.... if you have stub number 3427438, please head over to security after the first duel. Again, tonight's lucky scavenger is ticket stub number 3427438...."
00:09:45. drivers should be in and starting cars. Roll commercials (60s)
00:10:45 A: "Remember: video of this duel will be available for purchase through zToons tomorrow morning.
00:11:00 Greenlight gates.
...

Then after the duel, 5-10 minutes of commentary and adverts (1/4 adverts). Then repeat the cycle for the next one.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:51 PM   #18
swordtart
 
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

Ok based on those numbers you are talking 4 minutes of ads or $240 per event.

As I said, not exactly a money spinner.

Thanks for the ad rate though, that is useful gen.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #19
GrauGeist
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrytubist View Post
If I were an arena manager putting on an amateur night I would use vehicles I had on hand, i.e. salvage (damaged components and partially loaded weapons). You would probably only see a stock-design match if it was sponsored by a manufacturer.
Go to a public go-kart track - how many different models do they have on the track?

How about the number of variants of bumper-cars?

ONE.

Expect cookie-cutter cars for parts, spares, and repair commonality, along with standardized, simplified repair processes. Purchase in bulk, as a "fleet" buy.

Thinking about it, there's probably a market for a standardized, "spec" "Amateur" car which is AADA-sanctioned and approved specifically for "official" AN events that never sees street miles. Heavy duty single-seat chassis & frame, modular weapon mount and harness for standard weapon "pods", bolt-on armor panels, etc. Bulk standard spares like you'd find for a commercial van (check the price of a Chevy fleet van bumper vs the painted one on a passenger car - price ratio may be 5:1 or more)
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Cost to run Amateur Night...

I can't find hard numbers, but I was thinking more like a Minor League Baseball event. This site shows some of the possibilities.
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