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Old 03-13-2023, 08:02 PM   #11
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
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Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
But is Giant Rope not also cast on an individual?
Good point.
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Old 03-29-2023, 02:31 PM   #12
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Giant Rope could also give greater area coverage, in that it works on multi-hex creatures like giants. If you put it all in one hex, it gives the effect of extra Rope to be removed. Presumably, Steve Jackson chose to not call it 3-hex Rope so as to limit the spell to a single target rather than letting a wizard potentially hit three one-hex figures with one spell.[...]
A bit late for this one, but I just notice that the Giant Rope Greater Magic Item does cover more area than the Rope Lesser Magic Item. It will grab anyone coming within two hexes, while a magical Rope has a one-hex attack radius.
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Old 04-02-2023, 12:52 PM   #13
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

I mostly follow what Metagaming's Codex specified, so all of the following:

Fire
Shadow
Wall
Image
Illusion (does not include Image, but the larger Illusion versions include the smaller ones)
Avert
Sleep
Freeze
Rope
Demons
Dragons
Flesh
Spellsniffer > Reveal Magic
Analyze Magic > Detect Magic

However, they also list Lesser/Greater Magic Item Creation, and I tend to think that ought to require a spell for each level (plus the other spells), at least (as well as written formulas) because it's so much stuff, and so powerful, that I think it should take more study/learning/effort than just 1 spell does.

They also list Staff of Power > Staff, but of course, those are a different thing from Legacy Staff spells.
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Old 04-02-2023, 01:53 PM   #14
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I mostly follow what Metagaming's Codex specified, so all of the following:
I never saw the Codex, but I take it from what you wrote that lesser spells are contained in the greater ones. How does that work for getting greater ones when you already have the lesser--is it free when one's IQ is high enough?
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Old 04-02-2023, 02:41 PM   #15
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

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I never saw the Codex, but I take it from what you wrote that lesser spells are contained in the greater ones. How does that work for getting greater ones when you already have the lesser--is it free when one's IQ is high enough?
Great question!

In original TFT, yes, it costs no IQ points to add the higher level, but it does require study (so, game time and opportunity such as a teacher or book), using the rules for study which were removed from Legacy edition. This is the way I still do it, because I like explicit study (and something to study from) to be part of the game.

In Legacy TFT, I checked with Steve, saying I thought from the various semi-relevant parts of Legacy ITL, that it meant for it to go like this:

"XP is not required to learn greater versions of Image, Illusion, Fire, Wall, or Shadow. Wizards are also usually assumed to have already studied the greater version of the spell, and can cast it once their IQ reaches the required level."

But Steve replied that definitely wasn't what he meant.

So, I now take it that Steve meant that in Legacy the free lower spell levels only happen during character creation, and that they'd cost 500 XP (like any other new spell) during play.

(However, it seems inconsistent to me, that it would cost nothing during character creation, but involve no savings of effort at all during play.)

Last edited by Skarg; 04-02-2023 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 04-02-2023, 04:06 PM   #16
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
In Legacy TFT, I checked with Steve, saying I thought from the various semi-relevant parts of Legacy ITL, that it meant for it to go like this:

"XP is not required to learn greater versions of Image, Illusion, Fire, Wall, or Shadow. Wizards are also usually assumed to have already studied the greater version of the spell, and can cast it once their IQ reaches the required level."

But Steve replied that definitely wasn't what he meant.
Huh. Or, as we say here in Maine, “Ain’t that odd!”

My druthers have evolved so that now I’d rather have the greater versions be a benefit of gaining the requisite IQ, or at least be half-cost. Oh, well.
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Old 04-02-2023, 06:53 PM   #17
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I mostly follow what Metagaming's Codex specified, so all of the following:

Fire
Shadow
Wall
Image
Illusion (does not include Image, but the larger Illusion versions include the smaller ones)
Avert
Sleep
Freeze
Rope
Demons
Dragons
Flesh
Spellsniffer > Reveal Magic
Analyze Magic > Detect Magic

However, they also list Lesser/Greater Magic Item Creation, and I tend to think that ought to require a spell for each level (plus the other spells), at least (as well as written formulas) because it's so much stuff, and so powerful, that I think it should take more study/learning/effort than just 1 spell does.

They also list Staff of Power > Staff, but of course, those are a different thing from Legacy Staff spells.
Thanks, Skarg, for this information. It's different than what's said in ITL, which only mentions the cheaper version for free with area-based creation spells. I'll have to decide whether I want to go with the more liberal rules here or not.

Thanks also for reporting one what Steve said below (that when you increase IQ, you don't get the more expensive version for free). I might go with a half-price rule in that case, but it would be a house rule, evidently.

Like Shostak, I've never seen the Codex.
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Old 04-03-2023, 10:45 AM   #18
Bill_in_IN
 
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Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

Is there a link for the Codex?
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Old 04-03-2023, 12:42 PM   #19
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

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Is there a link for the Codex?
No, it's a physical product of Metagaming, printed in 1981.
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Old 04-03-2023, 12:43 PM   #20
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...

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Is there a link for the Codex?
Far as I can tell, it was published in 1981 and there's not a PDF available anywhere. Y'all let me know if I'm wrong.
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