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Old 12-08-2022, 06:55 AM   #1
VadersFear
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hamburg, germany
Default Religious Hive Mind

Hey guys!
I was thinking of a religion System for my world.
Since I like to have a "science" behind by mechanics, I thought of the Religious Hive Mind as a model how religion works.

Please excuse any wording problems, I just translated it from my originals.

Feel free to better this system or use any of it on your own.

Michael
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Last edited by VadersFear; 12-08-2022 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Sorting the paragraphs
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Old 12-08-2022, 06:56 AM   #2
VadersFear
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hamburg, germany
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

Religious Hive Mind

Basics
There are no Gods, but when a religion forms, the Faith of the believers form a Religious Hive Mind. The RHM is a "construct" from the minds of believers and the strength of their faith.

Shaped Gods
The properties of a God are defined by its followers. The way they look, their powers are according to their religious canon, which is defined by the believers. An Apparition is never clear, but blurred and in constant motion, because everyone depicts his god in other ways.
They can appear totally different in other parts of the world.


Priests
There are special people, called Priests or Shamans by the mundane, who can harness the power of the RHM. These people have to be true believers in the Religion, there is no other way to tap into it. But they can wield enormous powers, depending on the size of the religion.

Religious Power
The Priest has a Devine Influence (DI) Level, just like Magery, with 10 Points per Level. (Power Investiture in 4th ed)
He also has a divine energy pool (Fatigue + DI) he can perform Miracles from.
Additionally he can siphon power from his followers to perform miracles faster and more powerful.

The Religion has a power level (Religious Base Power RBP) which is defined by the number of its followers, where extremists count double. This number goes up to 7 at 5M+ Believers.

DI and RIM are used for Miracles but also to battle supernatural entities.
In that case it is a modifier against supernatural attacks. Not normal attacks!
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"They call the studio the Hospital - making money from the Sick"
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Last edited by VadersFear; 12-08-2022 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Sorting the Paragraphs
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Old 12-08-2022, 06:56 AM   #3
VadersFear
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hamburg, germany
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

Religious Drain
A Priest can access the fatigue of his followers who are around and willingly participating.
This drains their fatigue. During the incantation the people will be euphoric and excited, but fall into lethargy depression after.
Both depend on how much energy was drained and how long the miracle took.

Powerdrain
The Priest drains power from a wide area and even from unwilling believers. This can be seen as evil and may be restricted by the religions rules.

Force Drain
A powerful priest can drain much more energy from his followers and much quicker.
The energy is transfered by a searing light from the head of the faithful to the body of the priest. This only works in a small area, but includes willing and unwilling people (no matter if believer or not). This harms the “donor”, bodily, mentaly or both, depending on the Miracle. This skill is inherently evil.

Energy and Recovery:
Energy available per person: 1/(Distance in Feet)^2 (Max = 1) --> Needs to be reworked

Recovery: 1 Fatigue / Day
4 Fatigue / Day with Meditation/Prayer
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"They call the studio the Hospital - making money from the Sick"
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Old 12-08-2022, 06:57 AM   #4
VadersFear
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hamburg, germany
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

Miracles
These are the spells Priests can perform.
They are incantations that take time and energy.
Miracles are Spells as defined in the Spelltables.
The Religion defines a Spell list that count as Miracles.
Prerequisits don't count! (at least not here)

Spells that are not in the Spell list, but are very close to an existing spell can be performed with a will check.
Spells that are further away but kind of fit, have a will check with a modifier.
Spells which are against the principles of this religion don't work at all.

The Available Energy is depending on
- number of believers,
- The distance to the Priest
- how strong the Faith of the believers is.

The strength of possible Miracles depends on
- Religious Base Power

The strength level of a Spell is defined by the number of its prerequisits.
The max number of prerequisits is defined by Divine Influence + Religious Base Power, where RBP caps DI. (DI <= RBP)

Religious Sites

When Religious sites are erected, they can be built in special ways to store the prime energy of the gods. This energy prevents the structure from decomposition and collapse, but not from forceful destruction. If it is abandoned, a priest or a religious artefact can tap into this energy and use it. The deterioration will continue after that, which can mean the immediate collaps of the structure.
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Peter Gabriel, The Barry Williams Show

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Old 12-09-2022, 09:46 PM   #5
Gef
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

Hey VF,

I just wanted to shout out because when you put something out there for others to enjoy, you get a lot less feedback than when you ask a question.

So, "there are no gods" but what worshippers generate, sort of a mass poltergeist effect. And yet, regardless of its origin, would it not make sense to call this effect a character, if it can act in ways like a character? Seems like perhaps the best way to model it is as a character with Maintenance as a disad, or better yet, a group of abilities each with Maintenance as a separate Temporary Disad. That way, if the worship falls off, the god doesn't cease to exist but loses some of its abilities.

Or is the idea that the god is a fleeting manifestation of active worship, not just passive belief? That it fades from existence on Monday but a new manifestation comes into existence during Sunday service, perhaps a bit defferent than last week's manifestation depending on the hymns and the sermon? Does the manifestation have Split Personality or other neuroses if individual worshippers conceptualize it differently?

Priests must be believers, so in other words, the characteristic needed for input and the characteristic needed to harness output are the same, belief, so no cynical manipulative priests can existt. Only an atheist could hope to recognize how this cosmology works and think about how to manipulate belief to get just the manifestation you want, except as a non-believer he could neither contribute to nor benefit from the manifestation. Seems like a disad.

What about the "god" - is it sapient, could it decide what it wants to be, a Christmas wish list, and disseminate propaganda to make its worshippers believe accordingly?

Interesting ideas, though I'm not sure I have a use for them in my present campaign, and if I did, I'd want to flesh out how the whole shaped-by-belief bit actually works.

Last edited by Gef; 12-10-2022 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 12-09-2022, 11:34 PM   #6
Balor Patch
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

"A wyter is a spirit, akin to a minor god, which represents a community of Orlanthi. Clans and tribes have their own wyter, and it is assumed so do cities."
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Old 12-10-2022, 05:33 AM   #7
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

Seems a bit like the idea of a "Collective Unconscious" but focused on religious belief, and with priests having the ability to draw power from the force of collective belief.
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Old 12-10-2022, 04:20 PM   #8
Inky
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

Some modern magical groups have tried to do this kind of thing on purpose, sometimes even as a group effort (one made by a group of people seems to be sometimes called an "egregore"), so it's not totally implausible that a group might do this on purpose, knowing that they made it themselves.

On the other hand, if you wanted to set it up as it doesn't work, or isn't as powerful, unless they do think that it's a real god and don't know that they're making it themselves, that could be interesting too!

(One possible move, if so, unless the "laws of magic" specifically made that impossible, would be for someone who did know how it worked to recruit a number of people who didn't and lie to them, so that they could do the believing for him. You might end up with a cult where the only person who wasn't a believer was the priest. A small cult with a single leader would presumably produce a small "god", but a very consistent one... until something weird happened. You might think that there would be no way for conflicting views to get in, since the "god" was entirely built to the priest's "specifications" and couldn't really give them any information that didn't come from that... but maybe a member of the cult randomly has a hallucination, and suddenly you've got a splinter group based on the holy vision of the guy who ate too much cheese before bedtime).
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Old 12-14-2022, 06:45 AM   #9
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Religious Hive Mind

That sounds like Mage the Ascension. "Consensus is key".
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