Rules you ignore/alter.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I lean the other way, aiming for an average of 10.5. It helps give some variety to the NPCs: instead of needing to be exceptional in a skill to have an exceptional stat, I ask if the NPC is better or worse than average in the attribute.

In fantasy settings I do the same thing, generally assuming NPCs are actually "60" points and have 11s in attributes (it's very fitting for dangerous settings where a -50pt character will not survive).

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

In fantasy settings I do the same thing, generally assuming NPCs are actually "60" points and have 11s in attributes (it's very fitting for dangerous settings where a -50pt character will not survive).

Why are they -50 CP, or is the minus sign a typo or notation with which I am unfamiliar? I thought "average" humans were supposed to clock in at 0 to 50 CP. Painfully average people might have 10s across the board for Attributes, but they're supposed to have spent their CP elsewhere.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Why are they -50 CP, or is the minus sign a typo or notation with which I am unfamiliar? I thought "average" humans were supposed to clock in at 0 to 50 CP. Painfully average people might have 10s across the board for Attributes, but they're supposed to have spent their CP elsewhere.

When making actually average characters, they often can come out to negative points and still seem perfectly fine and capable of living in regular life circumstances. They just should never adventure. There was a thread at one point about making npcs where the point values range from -50 to 0. If you take out social advantages, then 60pts is quite optimistic for a regular person (social traits can make things vary hard).

Or to put it another way; "average" 50pts versus average 0 or less points.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I don't think an indestructible shield would use gadget limitations, or at least the breakable ones. Enhanced Defenses 3 is 90pts and gives no downside to if you succeed because of it.

I just realized one factor that "let's just combine enhanced dodge, enhanced parry and enhanced block as defense bonus" doesn't account for: how shields add DB to Shield Rush damage.

DB is also added to your roll to try and grapple/attack a shield if I recall.

I wonder if those are meant to cancel out like a 0-point feature? "Easy to hit" disad (like a SM+3 component) and striking ST (one attack) ?

For that reason it probably shouldn't be called DB ? Or we should call shield DB something more expansive like "Shield Bonus" (SB) since it's a metatrait of more than just 3 Enhanced Defenses.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

as far as I can tell 10 isn't average, at least for real people. It seems more like a heroic average. Instead, my (not awesome) npcs start at -1 on most attributes, -10% in ST, Low Pain Threshold, and Reluctant Killer (normally comes out to -85pts since I break Per and Will from IQ). That seems to give plenty of points that npcs can easily be 0pts or less.

What you describe is average for our world because we suck. Ours is a pampered reality lacking the demons/dragons which humans in the majority of other GURPS dimensions are constantly battling, causing them to either improve their attributes to survive or get weeded out by natural selection.

Natural selection has not weeded out physical weakness here like it has in the majority of other GURPS realities. We have No Mana everywhere which protects us from mages accidentally summoning demons every time they light a cigarette and then having them wipe out all our elderly/sedentary.

[AlexanderHowl]

I do not believe that most people have negative worth. The vast majority of them will have attribute 10, lots of social advantages (25-50 CP in Allies and Contacts), and substantial skills (50-100 CP worth, though the vast majority of the CP will be invested in Area Knowledge, Current Affairs, Games, Hobby Skills, and Sports). I also think that most of them will have relatively modest disadvantages.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I also think that most of them will have relatively modest disadvantages.

This is a good point. Disadvantages in GURPS are extreme, almost caricatured, versions of personality traits.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I do not believe that most people have negative worth. The vast majority of them will have attribute 10, lots of social advantages (25-50 CP in Allies and Contacts), and substantial skills (50-100 CP worth, though the vast majority of the CP will be invested in Area Knowledge, Current Affairs, Games, Hobby Skills, and Sports).

I tend to think that most of those things you assume they put points in are actually just defaults, or possibly perks for less than one point in a skill.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I tend to think that most of those things you assume they put points in are actually just defaults, or possibly perks for less than one point in a skill.

Still doesn't seem like enough of a difference to make -50 CP to 0 CP the mean, median, or mode values for NPCs unless that is supposed to be a feature of the setting. If you have all 10's for Attributes - and no bonuses to the quantities derived from them - then you just need your Skills and few Advantages (Perks?) to balance out your few Disadvantages (and Quirks). There, you're a zero CP character. If the campaign is judged on an international scale, you might go positive or negative depending on where you live. If 0 CP represents the low end of an average human existence, that seems about right.

With 10s across the board (for Attributes), it just takes being a successful professional without any major problems to be in that 25 to 50 range. Maybe one or two levels of a Talent that helped shape your career path, and the Comfortable Wealth and a small positive Reputation. Plus whatever you invested in your skills and yeah, a lot of us probably have more in Hobby Skills than we think. Well, hobby or hobby adjacent.

Typing was probably my weakest skill in high school; the class where it was the focus was only rivaled by my dismal performance in P.E. Pretty sure I was only capable of 20 WPM on a good day, and most of the time it was 15. Touch-typing was beyond me. Then comes college and not a typing course, but regular internet access (first on campus, then both at home and on campus), and becoming too involved in message boards. Finally, I end up writing about a hobby, and even practicing typing on my own (thank you The Typing of the Dead), so that I can do 70 WPM. Oh, and touch-typing is now quite natural.

So... I think I finally built up a 1 CP in typing. Maybe 2. It was 25 years in the making, but it happened. :)

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Plane

I just realized one factor that "let's just combine enhanced dodge, enhanced parry and enhanced block as defense bonus" doesn't account for: how shields add DB to Shield Rush damage.

DB is also added to your roll to try and grapple/attack a shield if I recall.

I wonder if those are meant to cancel out like a 0-point feature? "Easy to hit" disad (like a SM+3 component) and striking ST (one attack) ?

For that reason it probably shouldn't be called DB ? Or we should call shield DB something more expansive like "Shield Bonus" (SB) since it's a metatrait of more than just 3 Enhanced Defenses.

I'd probably just put all of that into a Striker and call it a wash.

Originally Posted by Plane

What you describe is average for our world because we suck. Ours is a pampered reality lacking the demons/dragons which humans in the majority of other GURPS dimensions are constantly battling, causing them to either improve their attributes to survive or get weeded out by natural selection.

Correct, which is definitely true in any take on campaigns set in this world; Espionage, Supers, Horror, etc.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I do not believe that most people have negative worth. The vast majority of them will have attribute 10, lots of social advantages (25-50 CP in Allies and Contacts), and substantial skills (50-100 CP worth, though the vast majority of the CP will be invested in Area Knowledge, Current Affairs, Games, Hobby Skills, and Sports). I also think that most of them will have relatively modest disadvantages.

What you're describing is a starting adventurer. I don't think I know anyone in the world that is this competent (since most people have 12 in skills they are good in, how does the majority of 100+ cp in five skills work out?). Also, namely, real life people have contacts and friends not Contacts and Allies.

[AlexanderHowl]

Five groups of skills. For example, I have a half dozen different Area Knowledges, a few Current Affairs, two dozen Games, and a half dozen Hobby Skills. With 1 CP in each (because default means that you have not tried enough to get good at something and I am good enough at all of those), I have 40 CP in background skills alone. For academic and professional skills (I am a professional academic), I also have few forms of Philosophy, a few forms of Theology, a few forms of History, a few forms of Expert Skill, a couple of forms of Law, Anthropolgy, Archaeology, Occultism, Writing, Research, Typing, Teaching, Criminology, Forensics, Sociology, and a smattering of mathematic, scientific, and technological skills, which are probably worth a minimum of 40 CP. For adventuring skills, I am fairly unskilled, but I do have Driving, Karate, Judo, Wrestling, and Smallsword. I am not exceptional though so, since I easily have 100 CP in skills from a quarter century of adulthood, I generally believe that anyone else does as well (even if I may not terribly find their skills interesting).