Affliction, Explosive, and Heart Attack

[kirbwarrior]

Part of Explosive's effect says that if you fail a HT roll to avoid death by 3+ that you explode. If I afflict both Explosive and Heart Attack on someone and they fail by 3+, do they immediately explode? If not, is there a way to make things explode?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Part of [Fragile (Explosive0]'s effect says that if you fail a HT roll to avoid death by 3+ that you explode. If I afflict both Explosive and Heart Attack on someone and they fail by 3+, do they immediately explode?

Looks like it. As GM. I'd require a really good rationale for that affliction, and might well be cruel with critical failures.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Yes, you can do that. Bit cheaper than add Enhanced Unnatural (+100%) too, but could be dangerous if they are close and/or don't want to cause collateral. It also only works on subjects without Homogenous, Diffuse, or No Vitals. So that's probably balanced.

If the purpose is to explode your subjects Burning Attack + Symptom or Side Effect is better as it works on anything.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Looks like it. As GM. I'd require a really good rationale for that affliction, and might well be cruel with critical failures.

I totally get that. Whether or not you CAN is different than SHOULD ;)

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Yes, you can do that. Bit cheaper than add Enhanced Unnatural (+100%) too, but could be dangerous if they are close and/or don't want to cause collateral. It also only works on subjects without Homogenous, Diffuse, or No Vitals. So that's probably balanced.

If the purpose is to explode your subjects Burning Attack + Symptom or Side Effect is better as it works on anything.

I could enhance it further so that it can affect anything (of small enough size as per Powers). But yeah, it is pretty hard to not get hit yourself without some good range on it.

I was thinking Burning attack with those or Link to an affliction, but they all still require extra rolls to go right (namely, at some point to roll a critical failure). Tying it to the affliction roll itself seemed like the best route because I can then put a limitation where if the subject doesn't fail by 3 then the affliction doesn't stick around.

This initially came about because a player wanted the ability to explode inanimate objects. My first thought was afflicting an Innate Attack that had Backlash: Dies on it (as per PK) and adding +300% so as to make sure it wasn't cheaper than Heart Attack, but that doesn't scale with size (making it so a pebble and a car make the same explosion). Of course, only with that build can you make sure you aren't hit by the explosion (by using the right modifier on IA).

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I could enhance it further so that it can affect anything (of small enough size as per Powers). But yeah, it is pretty hard to not get hit yourself without some good range on it.

You could. You'd need something like "Instant Death" (+300%).

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I was thinking Burning attack with those or Link to an affliction, but they all still require extra rolls to go right (namely, at some point to roll a critical failure). Tying it to the affliction roll itself seemed like the best route because I can then put a limitation where if the subject doesn't fail by 3 then the affliction doesn't stick around.

Burning Attack with Explosive as a symptom would be your best bet there. Affliction does make it a neater package though.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

This initially came about because a player wanted the ability to explode inanimate objects. My first thought was afflicting an Innate Attack that had Backlash: Dies on it (as per PK) and adding +300% so as to make sure it wasn't cheaper than Heart Attack, but that doesn't scale with size (making it so a pebble and a car make the same explosion). Of course, only with that build can you make sure you aren't hit by the explosion (by using the right modifier on IA).

No, that isn't a legal build.

A crushing attack + Explosion 3 + Fragmentation + Based on HT + Malediction is your best bet here. Again, maybe with Symptom for Explosive.

[naloth]

I'm not sure symptom works right for the timing. Normally you take damage then suffer the symptom afterwards. If the primary attack kills you, it's unlikely the symptom would ever kick in.

I'd suggest splitting it into two attacks, with the second one being a follow up. I'd use a Side Effect to make the target Explosive (limited to the next attack), then have the follow up do the damage that could potentially trigger the Explosion.

Of course, your odds of triggering an explosion via a critical failure or other failure by 3 (since you normally stop rolling when you fail any roll) is still pretty low. You would still be better off buying an attack power that just creates an explosion especially if you're adding fragmentation damage.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

A crushing attack + Explosion 3 + Fragmentation + Based on HT + Malediction is your best bet here. Again, maybe with Symptom for Explosive.

Yea, something like that. I'm not really that fond of Explosive 3 - for the value I'd rather do Area, but otherwise sure.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by naloth

I'm not sure symptom works right for the timing. Normally you take damage then suffer the symptom afterwards. If the primary attack kills you, it's unlikely the symptom would ever kick in.

This is ultimately up to the GM. Personally, I'd be fine with it - or with Side Effects still potentially going into play if the attack kills the target, if they would matter (Paralysis generally wouldn't go into play, although if there are visible special effects, like all muscles going rigid or the target being encased in ice or whatever, I'd either have those go into effect automatically or still roll for them). I'm not sure how I feel about the Side Effect/Symptom essentially retroactively going into effect in cases where the target isn't killed anyway; I'd probably do that case-by-case (Fragile: Brittle as a Side Effect/Symptom on a Crushing Innate Attack, or Vulnerability as such on any Innate Attack, may be unbalanced if they apply retroactively).

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by naloth

I'm not sure symptom works right for the timing. Normally you take damage then suffer the symptom afterwards. If the primary attack kills you, it's unlikely the symptom would ever kick in.

I figured you could hit them with enough damage a second time to blow them up. That said, you could just use "Cosmic, Apply Symptom/Side Effect immediately" (+100%) would work. I've used it in my own games enough to know it more or less works. GM judgement still required of course.

Originally Posted by naloth

I'd suggest splitting it into two attacks, with the second one being a follow up. I'd use a Side Effect to make the target Explosive (limited to the next attack), then have the follow up do the damage that could potentially trigger the Explosion.

You could. You surely could.

Originally Posted by naloth

Of course, your odds of triggering an explosion via a critical failure or other failure by 3 (since you normally stop rolling when you fail any roll) is still pretty low. You would still be better off buying an attack power that just creates an explosion especially if you're adding fragmentation damage.

Also true.

Originally Posted by naloth

Yea, something like that. I'm not really that fond of Explosive 3 - for the value I'd rather do Area, but otherwise sure.

Explosive at that level can get really brutal with the right amount of damage.

[Aldric]

A 1d or something attack with Fragile (Explosive) as symptoms should not be immediately lethal unless the target is already wounded.
Make it a Malediction with No Signature and you can just stare at something for a few seconds to make it Explosive, and some more to actually make it explode. Increase number of dices to make the process faster.

But if you just want to blow something up instantly, just buy an Innate Attack with ex and enough damage, bonus points if you make it a follow up