What exactly determines combat initiative in GURPS?

[the adventurer]

What exactly determines combat initiative in GURPS? This should be obvious, but the only listing for initiative in the index directs me to GROUP Initiative. And for the life of me I can't find a clear cut rule for individual initiative.

So... can some give me a page number or just tell me the rule? Because I'm feeling like an idiot here.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by the adventurer

What exactly determines combat initiative in GURPS? This should be obvious, but the only listing for initiative in the index directs me to GROUP Initiative. And for the life of me I can't find a clear cut rule for individual initiative.

So... can some give me a page number or just tell me the rule? Because I'm feeling like an idiot here.

Basic Speed

Rules for Turn Sequence are on (GURPS Basic, pg 363).

[Polydamas]

Sometimes it depends on circumstances. For example, if Alice and Bob are walking along, and fail to spot Eve who decides to take a shot at Alice, Eve always goes first! Also, have a look at Surprise Attacks and Initiative p. B393, and the rules for fast-draw contests in High Tech and Tactical Shooting.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Basic Speed

Rules for Turn Sequence are on (GURPS Basic, pg 363).

And if someone has Enhanced Time Sense, they go first no matter their Basic Speed. Surprise situations, of course, work differently, as Polydamas explained.

[OldSam]

Basically the answer is quite simple: Basic Speed determines combat order, higher Speed goes first. (with exceptions like Enhanced Time Sense etc.)

If you'd like to have a bit more random with that ( in the classic style: "Roll for initiative!"), you could go with a semi-official solution like that one nice variant Kromm posted here:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=29653#8

[Bruno]

Its VERY important to know that "initiative" does not mean "turn order" in GURPS. It's closer to the plain English meaning, but best translates to "getting the drop on the other guy". The surprise system is heavily integrated with Initiative in GURPS.

Turn order, or order of actions, is typically a fixed order. It's a not-exotically-rare house-rule to implement a random turn-order but I would strongly recommend not doing a "reroll every turn" system, and I would recommend to keep the random element to a minimum - a notable portion of the price of DX (and HT) is Basic Speed, which in turn is priced the way it is due to its influence on Dodge, and on turn order.

I'd suggest something like (3 times Basic Speed) +1d6 for a random turn order system, or (2 times Basic Speed) + 1d6 - 1d6. Something like that.

[bcd]

Originally Posted by Bruno

It's a not-exotically-rare house-rule to implement a random turn-order but I would strongly recommend not doing a "reroll every turn" system

To emphasize your point, I will add that the whole idea of rerolling turn order "every turn" in GURPS is fundamentally nonsenscial since the system doesn't operate with a "global turn" type concept at all, it only relates to individual turns that overlap one another.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by bcd

To emphasize your point, I will add that the whole idea of rerolling turn order "every turn" in GURPS is fundamentally nonsenscial since the system doesn't operate with a "global turn" type concept at all, it only relates to individual turns that overlap one another.

and a change in sequence (turn to turn) would make most tactical decisions anywhere from moot to incredibily risky to suicidal...

something as simple as I move into melee range turn 1 (normal defenses) and then attack turn 2 (normal defenses) might get you killed if the target is slower than you on turn 1 (and attacks as you move in) and then (due to random) faster than you on turn 2 (and attacks again with a good chance to saturate and overwhelm your defenses).

AGAIN THIS IS BECAUSE FREX "YOUR" DEFENSES ARE SET PER YOUR ACTIONS SELECTED AND CANNOT BE RESET UNTIL "YOUR" NEXT TURN.

random changes in combat sequence will willy-nilly create situations where opponents will have 2 "turns/actions" during 1 "turn/action" of yours.

Normally to achieve that requires significant effort via advantages/magic/ultratech/etc.

just my 2 cp... don't cross the streams!

Dr. Egon Spengler: There's something very important I forgot to tell you.
Dr. Peter Venkman: What?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Don't cross the streams.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Why?
Dr. Egon Spengler: It would be bad.
Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, "bad"?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Dr Ray Stantz: Total protonic reversal.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Right. That's bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon.

[the adventurer]

Thanks for all the help guys. I knew this was simpler then I was making it out to be. Nothing worse then sitting down to run your first GURPS session ever and your brain farting on something so... basic.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by the adventurer

Thanks for all the help guys. I knew this was simpler then I was making it out to be. Nothing worse then sitting down to run your first GURPS session ever and your brain farting on something so... basic.

The ability to say "I don't know" is the beginning of all wisdom. A GM who "knows everything" is usually enough to get me scrabling away from the table like someone had just slapped a limpet mine to it!!

Good Luck and enjoy...ole GM tip...prior to any run where you expect a combat prep a Turn sheet listing (in decending order) all PC's, NPCs/neutrals and Bad Guys. Then its just unroll the map, place the figures and Turn 1 Speed 6.XX...and read on down.