11-08-2021, 11:33 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jun 2020
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Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
So, I've been working on a CnC Tiberium/CnC Generals fusion (with some bits from the Earth 21X0 series and Act of Aggression) for a 'remake CnC' setting and one of the things is that most of the petrol/diesel/aviation gas is gone, most of the oil deposits are gone and the majority of the infrastructure for its creation is consumed by a certain von-neumann crystal.
So, GDI is currently using propane/LNG to fuel the engines for its vehicles until proper proton-proton chain fusion reactors get produced in sufficient numbers for mass deployment on vehicles. Using LNG makes things, oddly enough, worse. An LNG-fueled ceramic engine for what is a Humvee requires (for a 10-hour fuel duration) almost 3.5 metric tons of LNG (or 6,814 liters/1800 gallons). I've checked MA Lloyd's Vehicle Expansion and it makes an LNG-powered fuel cell even worse: Quote:
From my understanding, RL HC-FCs would be taking a third of the fuel consumption of their standard hydrogen counterparts... not half again. In addition, an HC-FC is 2.375 times heavier than the equivalent supercharged ceramic engine using LNG while having a fraction of the fuel consumption... If there is a way to make HC-FCs work, I would be glad to hear it. Last edited by GURPS Fox; 11-09-2021 at 12:30 AM. |
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11-09-2021, 12:45 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
How about giving them the same weight and price as the VE2 hydrogen fuelled ones, and giving them a multifuel consumption equal to the listed hydrgen consumption times the ratio multifuel to hydrogen given for IC engines (so about 0.02 gph at TL9+). This makes them economical but heavy.
Note that there are other options aside from fusion - fission reactors are lighter and cheaper at TL9. Also, rechargable powercells can be lighter and more compact than engine plus fuel for shorter durations (exactly how short depends on the engine and fuel), which can be over 12 hours. One other thing - do these extra rules use realistic fuel consumptions (VE2X p.23) and thus give consumptions three time higher than VE2 assumes?
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." Last edited by Rupert; 11-09-2021 at 12:50 AM. |
11-09-2021, 01:24 AM | #3 | ||||
Join Date: Jun 2020
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
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To give you an idea, I'll give you three different engines using standard vehicle calculations:
With a running time of 10 hours being an outright requirement (because, well, a certain von-neumann crystal ate most of the oil fields and associated infrastructure outside of, essentially, those in enemy hands), you can see where this is going. Note, the current Humvee equiv has an engine grouping (fuel and all) of 22281lbs/6677kg in terms of mass. Quote:
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Last edited by GURPS Fox; 11-09-2021 at 01:30 AM. |
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11-09-2021, 01:33 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
The problem is likely that hydrocarbon power plants in Vehicles have about 1/3 the fuel consumption they realistically should have (though this is somewhat negated by the way operating endurance is calculated), and thus realistic options look bad.
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11-09-2021, 02:57 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2020
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
Quote:
A Fennek has an operational range of... 860km/530 miles and it's roughly 10.4 metric tons (or 11.5 US tons). In comparison, my current humvee-type vehicle has a 10-hour operational time, can move at 64.4km/h off-road, and weighs in at just a smidge over 24 metric tons. It makes the rules rather hostile to ICE in general. |
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11-09-2021, 05:39 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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11-09-2021, 07:46 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
Quote:
Also, when I google "Humvee" I get a max weight of maybe 8500 lbs for the whole thing and not just the engine and gas tank.. Not sure what your 2.5x as large vehicle is. It seems possible to me with those engines that your vehicle size and performance goals are too large for the setting's resources.
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Fred Brackin |
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11-09-2021, 08:09 AM | #8 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
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11-09-2021, 08:19 AM | #9 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
Quote:
Actual HMMWV engine: 0.15 MW M1A2 powerplant: 1.12 MW So a 4MW power plant is enough to drive more than three M1A2 MBTs, each of which masses over 62 tons. https://www.siemens-energy.com/globa...s/sgt-100.html This is a 5-ish MW gas turbine by Siemens. https://www.siemens-energy.com/globa...s/sgt-100.html it masses 27 tons by itself.
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11-09-2021, 12:00 PM | #10 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2020
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Re: Hydrocarbon Fuel Cells for 3e
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assistance needed, fuel cells, gurps 3e, hydrocarbons |
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