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Old 10-19-2018, 08:54 AM   #1
Drone 5
 
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Default Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

I have read the rules in HT197 and HT93 for Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks and was wondering why they are based on Thrust attacks? It would seem to me that these are Swing attacks.
Just curious.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:22 AM   #2
weby
 
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

In Gurps the swing attack vs thurst thing is a bit silly, as there are many attacks that are something in between too.

The rifle butt is clearly mostly a thrust type attack, most attack with it at either jabs or really short swings due to the grip.

You could however grab a rifle by the barrel with two hands and use it is large and somewhat unwieldy club. The minimum ST for such a use would however be fairly high due to the high weight and likely be at a penalty to attack due to the balance of the weapon and be unready after the attack.

The pistol whip is one of those in between attacks, it is usually more of a swing, but the poor grip you get in the normal grip is really limiting in how much actual force you can get behind the strike, so that makes is better modeled as thurst.

If you take time with a larger pistol to change to a tonfa grip, you could likely qualify as a bad gripped light/really light tonfa.
So perhaps something like:
really large pistol(like 6 inch barrel revolvers): tonfa -1 or -2 to hit for sw-1 cr damage, max ST 6.
Large pistols: tonfa -1 or -2 to hit for sw-2 cr damage, max ST 5.
or something similar. Smaller pistols have normally too small surface to work as such.

And I would personally make some early heavy long barrel pistols with the more horizontal grips get a penalty to shooting due to awkward grip, but allow them to be used as light clubs with swing type attacks.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:28 AM   #3
Kromm
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

GURPS High-Tech, p. 93 gives full rules for punching someone with a pistol in your hand, for thrust-based damage, or swinging a larger pistol as a mace, for swing-based damage. The latter is generally only an option for a pistol that's built for it.

GURPS High-Tech, p. 198 gives full rules for striking end-on for thrust-based damage and swinging a long arm for swing-based damage. Both are options, though the latter is unwise with a gun you plan to shoot later, unless it was built for clubbing.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:32 AM   #4
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
In Gurps the swing attack vs thurst thing is a bit silly, as there are many attacks that are something in between too.

The rifle butt is clearly mostly a thrust type attack, most attack with it at either jabs or really short swings due to the grip.

You could however grab a rifle by the barrel with two hands and use it is large and somewhat unwieldy club. The minimum ST for such a use would however be fairly high due to the high weight and likely be at a penalty to attack due to the balance of the weapon and be unready after the attack.
You are also warned that such attacks severely reduce the subsequebt accuracy of its' use as a rifle rather than a club. At least for modern guns anyway. some very old muskets may have been reinforced for such attacks.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:38 AM   #5
Kromm
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

Holding a standard, modern-day pistol by the barrel and swinging it at someone isn't what's normally meant by "pistol whipping." Pistol-whipping is most often attacking with a hammer fist, with the butt of the pistol protruding beneath the fist to act as a hard striking surface, like this (warning: gangster-movie language and violence). Less often, it's literally punching someone with the barrel protruding over the top of the hand. This sums it up fairly accurately. The point being that in both cases, you're punching (for thrust damage).
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

Also, holding a firearm by the naughty end and hitting someone with it greatly increases the chance of becoming both perpetrator and casualty of a negligent discharge.
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
You are also warned that such attacks severely reduce the subsequebt accuracy of its' use as a rifle rather than a club. At least for modern guns anyway. some very old muskets may have been reinforced for such attacks.
Oh, definitely, it is only for the do or die when your weapon is already not working and someone jumps you..
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:22 PM   #8
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

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Oh, definitely, it is only for the do or die when your weapon is already not working and someone jumps you..
If you're that desperate the Ready Action may not be a good use of your time and switching to the rather uncommon Skill of Two-Handed Axe/Mace (so it's the Default of DX-5) probably isn't going to be strong either.
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:59 AM   #9
johndallman
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
Oh, definitely, it is only for the do or die when your weapon is already not working and someone jumps you..
A fixed bayonet is likely to be a better bet.
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Old 10-20-2018, 03:51 AM   #10
weby
 
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Default Re: Rifle Butt and Pistol Whipping attacks

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A fixed bayonet is likely to be a better bet.
Fixing a bayonet takes longer. But just drawing your entrenchment tool and using it is likely a better option anyway than trying to use your rifle as a club. (or just use your knife as a knife and not fasten it to the rifle).
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