Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2013, 11:26 AM   #11
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
And most likely aerospace transports have a great many traits incompatible with an effective tank, though certain types of superscience would change that.
And carrying a gun is a different beast from being a good firing platform.
__________________
RyanW
Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king. Gondor doesn't have to show you any stinking king.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:08 PM   #12
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

One way to make a game closer range (without changing world assumptions too much) is to impose social or legal restrictions, giving long-range weaponry low LC, or organizing people into small communities surrounded by force fields (if you can talk or sneak your way in, you're at close range...if you can't, there's no way to shoot through their shields).
Social solutions always make the most sense to me. For example, in Star Wars the plot always just happens to put the characters in situations where they need to get close, even though warfare looks more or less the way it should at TL 10/11, with massive space battles, planet-destroying death rays, etc.
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:09 PM   #13
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
Social solutions always make the most sense to me. For example, in Star Wars the plot always just happens to put the characters in situations where they need to get close, even though warfare looks more or less the way it should at TL 10/11, with massive space battles, planet-destroying death rays, etc.
...Do you think the Imperial army actually looks anything like TL10-11 realistic? Let alone the space fleets?
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #14
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
...Do you think the Imperial army actually looks anything like TL10-11 realistic? Let alone the space fleets?
No, but it does bring up a valid point: ranged combat is limited by length of sightlines. If you're fighting indoors, you won't have firefights at distances exceeding the length of a hallway, and if you aren't in a hallway you'll be fighting at the length of a room. Even outdoors, range tends to be not more than a city block.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:44 PM   #15
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
...Do you think the Imperial army actually looks anything like TL10-11 realistic? Let alone the space fleets?
Not in the least. I just meant that the general range of military actions feels about right (planetary scale). Still, the plot creates opportunities for plenty of close range combat, swashbuckling, etc.
Another nice plot hook for this is weather. Star Trek teletransportation only seems to work when it's plot convenient; otherwise there's "too much interference." I don't remember if Star Wars ever explains why the Empire doesn't just blow up the rebel base on Hoth from space; perhaps their sensors couldn't penetrate the snow...?
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:56 PM   #16
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
Not in the least. I just meant that the general range of military actions feels about right (planetary scale). Still, the plot creates opportunities for plenty of close range combat, swashbuckling, etc.
Another nice plot hook for this is weather. Star Trek teletransportation only seems to work when it's plot convenient; otherwise there's "too much interference." I don't remember if Star Wars ever explains why the Empire doesn't just blow up the rebel base on Hoth from space; perhaps their sensors couldn't penetrate the snow...?
It does: they had a massive ground based shield generator that had to be pierced by ground (read physical) forces. The walker's mission was to blow up one generator, and then the empire could bring space forces to bear. Turns out the rebels were weak enough on the ground the ground forces didn't need to retreat.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:57 PM   #17
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

1. Have methods of messing with remote targeting.
2. Keep AI that can do the job of a human more expensive than the replacement cost of a human...if only by lowering the replacement cost of humans.
3. Don't have your hero be battlefield troops in the first place. In Star Trek, the characters aren't combat infantry. They're tourists with sidearms and strict limits on their rules of engagement.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 02:33 PM   #18
Xplo
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
Weapons grow increasingly accurate, powerful and with longer ranges (You can get quite some mileage out of TL 12 portable railguns with antimatter rounds). Sensors gain the same benefits. And soldiers move farther and farther from the battlefield.

...

Space opera typically looks different than that. Whether we're talking 40k, Star Trek, Star Wars or Andromeda or Farscape or Firefly or Dune, ranges are generally very short.

...

What remotely believable suggestions do you have for keeping ultra-tech combat to visual range? Bonus points of the option already exists within UT or a Pyramid article.
The personal nature of combat in space opera is a convention designed to keep the actors in the action. To replicate this in your games, establish the intent to keep combat personal with your players, and reject long-range or proxy combat scenarios with unrelenting stubbornness.

This won't be "believable" per se - as you've pointed out, ultratech shouldn't work that way - but it will adhere to the genre convention that you're consciously adopting.

It may aid convention enforcement if you set a hard cap on effective attack ranges and/or increase distance penalties by some multiplier. Eliminating bonuses from laser pointers, shoulder-mounted radar and the like is probably a good idea too; heck, ban them from the game. Space opera characters never use that stuff.

Also, as someone said above, if combat takes place in areas with limited visibility - broken terrain, forests, indoors - then ranges will necessarily be short.
Xplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 02:43 PM   #19
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplo View Post
Also, as someone said above, if combat takes place in areas with limited visibility - broken terrain, forests, indoors - then ranges will necessarily be short.
To be honest, 95% of infantry combat should take place in situations of limited visibility, open-field combat is not a strength of infantry and hasn't been since at least TL 6.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #20
Agemegos
 
Agemegos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
Default Re: [Ultra Tech] Shortening Range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
What remotely believable suggestions do you have for keeping ultra-tech combat to visual range? Bonus points of the option already exists within UT or a Pyramid article.
Run mysteries.
__________________

copyright Brett Evill
Discussion of FLAT BLACK
Agemegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
space opera, ultra tech, ultra-tech

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.