11-22-2021, 03:50 AM | #11 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: On using grenades
I'm not saying the GURPS Military Police is going to show up at your gaming table to take you away, I'm saying if your character is acting as a member of a military, he's likely going to be looking at a Court Martial for pulling a stunt like this. Doing this as a way to just get 1 second for free "cooking" would probably be more acceptable; I had thought you were talking about pulling the pin, then continuing to fight until it's time to throw. Even that's likely to get you into serious trouble if anyone finds out, I'd think.
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For the second bit, first off I think the spoon is a safety lever that has to be depressed in order to pull the pin, which would necessitate two hands on the grenade. Failing that, grenade pins require quite a bit of force to pull out, so I'm not certain you could reliably do it with one hand while the grenade stays in the pouch, but then I've never pulled a grenade pin. In a cinematic campaign, that would undoubtedly be doable, as it's easy enough to just do it with your teeth without messing them up (you could also prepare the grenade ahead of time by unbending the ends of the pin, making a one-handed pull or a teeth-assisted pull more readily doable, but also making it much easier for the grenade to get armed by accident).
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11-22-2021, 05:12 AM | #12 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: On using grenades
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Pouch grenade activation is more covert, you retain capability to return fire at all times, and you have better control of the battlefield by actively engaging targets and thus viewing the battlefield. Compared to standard, downsides are there's still a chance to catch Major Wound and thus explode, and to fail fast-draw roll to retrieve the grenade, but in general I believe it is more efficient. If you're holding a live grenade, and chance upon an enemy, you MUST throw it, and only on the next turn can you ready your weapon and engage. Chances are you'll throw it far away, rather than point blank, giving an enemy time to murder you. With rifle in your hands, if you chance upon an enemy, you have at least one round of YOU murdering them, and then you still have time to drop rifle, Fast-Draw Grenade, and throw it on your next turn. Same time taken, but you are using your tools more efficiently. P.S.: Another important aspect. Once grenade is primed, it is not a two-handed weapon, it is one-handed. So Ambidextrous person doesn't even need to drop his rifle to ready the grenade, and with high enough ST, or appropriate gun, he can fire his gun and throw the grenade as part of one attack - Dual-Weapon Attack! SMGs and pistols are good for that, but some rifles too. Tactical Shooting allows to wield a long arm in one hand, when strapped to you by a sling, for only x1.7 ST (14 for 8-dagger weapon), or if the weapon is bullpup or otherwise well-balanced like UZI, for x1.5 ST (12 ST For 8-Dagger weapon).
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit Last edited by MrFix; 11-22-2021 at 05:29 AM. |
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11-22-2021, 05:53 AM | #13 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: On using grenades
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(Actually, I feel Fast-Draw shouldn't even be its own skill; it should be a Technique of the skill you use the weapon with, defaulting at somewhere around -4) Quote:
So, typically the order of operations when using a grenade would be 1) identify where you want to throw the grenade, 2) get behind some cover, 3) draw and arm the grenade, 4) optionally, release the safety lever and do a count of "two-Mississippi*" and finally 5) throw the grenade, momentarily popping up and exposing yourself to fire if necessary. If you're in a situation where you'd be better off just attack-attack-attacking during that time... just keep attacking and leave the grenade be. In a more cinematic campaign (like one where your suggested Dual Weapon Attack: Pistol and Grenade wouldn't mark you as dangerously insane), of course, crazy stunts like "cooking" the grenade in your pouch, may well be par for the course. *This seems to be the most common method of approximately timing things, at least in the US - "one-Mississippi, two-Mississippi" will typically take around 2 seconds to count out. Personally, I favor counting things as "one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two," etc.
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11-22-2021, 06:16 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: On using grenades
It's up to you to decide best course of action. Naturally there are advantages that let you keep perfect count of time to always know what stage your grenade is at, and surprise CQB grenade could do serious damage since the enemy is more likely to be in the 5xDice range (10 yards for 2d grenade, 15 for 3d), and might even be hit by the blast, not just shrapnel.
I'd say it's one of those things that is GURPS tactics, rather than IRL tactics. Where Slicing the Pie doesnt work in GURPS, pocket grenade does. I personally wouldn't police this behavior from PCs, as I wouldn't police a melee fighter in a modern gunfight. Hey, if he's surviving and winning, surely he's a goofball but it works and it's fun.
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit Last edited by MrFix; 11-22-2021 at 06:20 AM. |
11-22-2021, 08:27 AM | #15 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: On using grenades
It's also generally a bad idea to hold an armed explosive device when unexpected injury is on the table. Being stunned, or suffering a crippling injury to the arm, becomes a probable death sentence.
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11-22-2021, 12:58 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: On using grenades
Realistically, any modern gunfight that isn't likely over before a grenade armed on the first turn could detonate meets that description!
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11-22-2021, 07:44 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: On using grenades
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11-22-2021, 08:09 PM | #18 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: On using grenades
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Indeed. And, for grenades in particular, I think by the time they reach you they likely aren't going very fast (unless your foe is specifically trying to hit you with the hurled grenade, and throwing it hard enough that if you Dodge, it will land several yards behind you), so wouldn't cause much, if any, damage from the throw. Heck, OP mentions that an item the weight of a grenade, thrown by a character with ST 10, would only deal around 1d-4 cr, which will typically fail to cause damage (but will sting a bit, at least once the adrenaline wears off).
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11-22-2021, 09:04 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: On using grenades
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While GURPS doesn't have official rules for booting objects for distance, the action itself should require only a successful DX roll (or suitable Sports skill roll), 1 second, and perhaps give a booting distance equal to some fraction of throwing distance. DX-based Soldier skill might be allowed to kick grenades into a "grenade sump" at the bottom of a fighting position and to get out of the way of the blast before the grenade goes off. Properly-dug, the sump will block shrapnel & reduce blast damage although possibly increasing stunning & deafening effects of the explosion. Picking up thrown grenades usually results in serious damage to the returnee's hand/arm, but prevents worse damage because the grenade is on the far side of solid cover &/or the blast effects aren't concentrated within an enclosed vehicle or fighting position. For example: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...e12-story.html A suitable DX-based Sports skill (e.g., baseball, cricket) roll or a Critical Success might shave 1 second off the time required to pick up and throw a live grenade, turning a 2-3 second process into an action which just takes 1-2 seconds. Arguably, you could pick up a grenade and drop it in a safer location within reach of your hand on the same turn. For example, a British soldier in Afghanistan was able to pick up a live grenade and then drop it into a nearby ditch, blocking shrapnel & redirecting the blast: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-20712689 People who were able to return multiple grenades by hand were usually dealing with poor-quality grenades with fuses which took more than 5 sec. to cook off and/or they caught them in air and hurled them back immediately. (Presumably 1 second to catch the grenade with a DX or Sports skill roll, with an instant unaimed "wild throw". Assume that the grenade gets about halfway to maximum throwing distance when it goes off.) Very lucky & skilled people attacked using really crappy grenades could do this repeatedly: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-enemy.html Note the key details: Test-match level cricketer & grenades with 8-second fuses. Last edited by Pursuivant; 11-22-2021 at 09:18 PM. |
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11-22-2021, 09:08 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: On using grenades
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I've been hit by a thrown (practice, but in this case that just meant 'M67 with no explosive and painted blue, so a steel ball effectively) grenade. It landed a few yards short of me on a nice hard concrete floor and bounced off it like a rubber ball, hitting me in the shoulder (because I partially dodged it - had I not I'd have lost some teeth). Because I was young and dumb I claimed it was nothing, and didn't go and see the base clinic. It took some time for the bruises to fade, and continuing basic training with all the exercise, press-ups, etc., with no pain killers or other medication was not a lot of fun.
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