11-21-2021, 02:59 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Feb 2020
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On using grenades
Trying to get a handle on these things.
Turn 1: Ready maneuver with one hand to take the grande from webbing, or use Fast Draw (Ammo) for an instant draw. Would the Off-hand penalty apply here if using the left hand? Turn 2: Ready with two hands to pull the pin. The four second fuse starts counting. Would be more convenient if this could be done one-handed, but I guess in real life they decided that would make grenades too unsafe? Still in sci-fi you sometimes see grenades that can be triggered with a thumb press and thrown lefthanded. If working two handed, the main weapon should be in a sling, so that it can be picked up with a single Ready afterwards. Turn 3: Throw the grenade. Max distance for ST10 is 35m. Extra Effort could be used to boost ST to 11 by spending 1 FP and rolling Will-2 (But I would probably remove the Will roll since Extra Effort in Combat does not require rolling, and Will-2 is a bit too punishing for a simple -crunches numbers- wait, just +3m distance? Forget it). Throwing skill defaults to DX-3, or just DX if you are only targeting a hex. Page 414 mentions +4 bonus for targeting ‘area of ground with an area-effect or explosive attack’, but for grenades it would only apply when ’lobbed it in a high arc’ (meaning less throwing distance?). But I could give the +4 for mud and other surfaces that the grenade cant bounce off and roll away from. And incidentally, 1 lb thrown object can deal 1d-4 cr damage if it hits directly. Typical speeds of thrown objects would seem to be about ~20m/s so the grenade would usually take a full second in flight. Fuse 3 seconds. Turn 4: Grenade hits the ground. Margin of failure for the throwing roll determines scatter distance. Fuse 2 seconds. Turn 5: Fuse 1 second. Does it explode now or next turn? Turn 6: Explosion. Individual damage rolls for each character in the blast, divided by Distance*3. But what about a character in the same hex (Distance 0), but not ‘struck directly’? Page 415 mentions ’Contact Explosions’ that ‘deal max possible damage’, so maybe just roll damage dice without any division when standing in the same hex? Fragmentation damage- attacks with ‘Skill’ 15 and ‘Recoil’ 3 for purposes of extra hits. “A hit is automatic if the explosive attack actually strikes the target.” Ok, but what about additional hits here? Do I still roll for those? A TL8 Stun Grenade inflicts HT-5 aff (10 yd.) against stun. But there does not seem to be any rules for regular explosions causing stun (aside from a possibility of a major wound) or deafening people. And since explosions are ‘large area injury’ we won't see any limb crippling unless only a single limb was exposed to being with. Throwing the grenade back: The enemy could start reacting on turn 3 (or turn 4 if we account for projectile flight time). By default it is 1 turn to kneel, 1 turn to pick up the grenade (could Fast Draw help here?), 1 turn to throw it away. NOT enough time if reacting on turn four. Or if the thrower aimed for an extra second, ‘cooking off’ the grenade. Also I wonder how likely it is for modern grenade fuses to be off by a second or two. Or WW2 grenades, or WW1. Probably less reliability as you go back. I’m thinking of making characters succeed a Perc roll to notice the grenade, and a DX roll to kneel and grab it in a single turn. |
11-21-2021, 05:13 PM | #2 | ||||
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: On using grenades
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Standing in the open drawing and throwing grenades is suicidal if there are enemy riflemen around: you need cover both for concealment and for protection against fragments. If you're really good at Stealth, dropping grenades into trenches or foxholes at arm's length is very effective.
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11-21-2021, 05:33 PM | #3 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: On using grenades
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11-21-2021, 05:34 PM | #4 | |||||||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: On using grenades
Yes. I don't think it's stated definitively anywhere in Basic Set (but the "Handedness" box on B14 certainly implies it), but Martial Arts takes it as a given - MA103, when discussing a character using the Multiple Fast Draw rules, has the character take a -4 to draw their dagger with their off hand.
However, note that if the GM feels that grabbing a grenade is something typically done with the off hand, no off hand penalty would be included - like the Main Gauche and Shield skills, the relevant Fast-Draw would include training to get over using the off hand. Failing that, I personally would have no issue with a single instance of the Off Hand Weapon Training Perk applying to both fast-drawing and using the relevant item. In this case, OHWT (Throwing) means you can ignore the -4 to both Fast-Draw and Throwing if using the off hand to grab and toss a grenade. Quote:
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This I don't know, but some variability could certainly be interesting.
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11-21-2021, 05:38 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: On using grenades
It would be reasonable that the grenade is drawn into main-hand. That way you draw it, pull pin with off-hand, and it is ready to be thrown to your longest range via your strong hand. Thus, if off-hand penalties for fast draw are a thing in your game, Fast-Draw (Grenade) would suffer.
Here's an absolute chad maneuver - you pull the grenade's pin while it is in a grenade pouch. The spoon instantly detaches and countdown begins. Don't try it for grenades mounted on webbing by spoon. Continue using your longarm as needed, keeping mindful of the timer. Then ready the grenade from the pouch as needed and throw it. Much more economical than holding it in hand for 3 seconds. Tricky GM may claim that if you start flying about or dropping, it can slip out though.
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11-21-2021, 05:43 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: On using grenades
On the other hand, some men who survived WWI had become very good at returning grenades to sender (anecdotally including one Irishman who became a cop in Northern Ireland after the war; his reflexes saved himself and several others during an inspection, when an IRA chap threw a grenade over a wall and the cop threw it back with great speed).
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11-21-2021, 06:28 PM | #7 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: On using grenades
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Note you're taking a huge risk just to be able to act for the 2 seconds while you're "cooking" the grenade (rather than doing things the typical way, using two Waits after arming the grenade normally) - Failure on that last Fast-Draw (Grenade) roll means you suffer a Contact Explosion (unless, realizing you drew the grenade too late, you convince the GM to let you drop it before it goes off, for normal explosion damage), likely losing your hand if you survive and injuring everyone near you regardless. The GM would also be justified in calling for an IQ roll or similar when you try to grab the grenade - on a Failure, you think you still have time left before it explodes, and thus continue acting normally (normally, this isn't necessary because you aren't continuing to engage in combat, you're taking Wait maneuvers). Quote:
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11-21-2021, 09:46 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: On using grenades
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You don't need the grenade "Ready" to ready it, since it is not an attack but a simple interaction. As such, no need to take the first fast-draw. Ready to pull the pin, then ready to draw it and toss it on next turn. Fast-Draw on pulling the grenade out could be useful at high enough levels. Otherwise, we all play games with dice, does it really matter if it rolls an 18 now, and not on that dodge one second later? Even better, no need to drop the rifle, GURPS doesn't seem to require you to remove a hand from the weapon as part of a ready maneuver and then return it to the firearm - reloading only covers actions actually spent on reloading, it doesn't tax you 2 ready maneuvers to ungrab a weapon to reach for magazine, and then to re-grab it after reload is finished! Reasonably, a grenade sits in the pouch snuggly enough, and attached to it by spoon, that you can interact with the ring reliably.
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit Last edited by MrFix; 11-21-2021 at 09:49 PM. |
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11-22-2021, 01:06 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: On using grenades
High-Tech has extended rules for explosives (including grenades) that include flash blindness and deafness.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
11-22-2021, 01:11 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: On using grenades
Incidentally, while it's not what the rules say, in my experience pulling the pin is part of the action to throw the grenade. That's how we were trained, anyway.
Also, pulling the pin is not something you'd readily do while also holding a rifle in your off hand - I'd allow it in a game, but it would be a couple of ready actions extra.
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