High recoil, single shots

[willfreedo]

If a weapon is shot just once each second of combat-time, then does its Recoil affect nothing during that scenario? Then, if said weapon can only have RoF 1, does its Rcl stat affect nothing at all? That'd be a shame.

For example: it came to mind the thought of somebody untrained, with weak arms, shooting an elephant rifle, or anything with a big knockback. There are (sadly) zillions of videos showcasing events as this. Is there anything modeling a chance of "losing control" of a firearm upon using it? Of course it'd probably be mostly anecdotical, and I know Recoil doesn't equate to recoil as we see it IRL. But it'd be nice to discuss houserules either way :D

[Kromm]

The effect you're looking for is in the ST stat, not the Rcl stat. Somebody with less ST than his gun's ST stat takes the difference as a penalty to skill, as with any weapon. If this drops his effective skill below 7, he'll critically fail more often and enjoy dropped weapon and misfire results. What you're seeing in silly videos is the average ST 10 guy firing a monster cartridge that calls for ST 12-13, and taking -2 to -3 to skill . . . which is probably his default skill of DX-4, or 6. So he's shooting at skill 3-4 and critically failing on 13-14. On occasion it's a nominally experienced shooter using his default from Guns (Pistol)-10 to operate at Guns (Rifle)-8, so the penalty gives him a 5-6 and he's critically failing on 15-16.

We give Rcl for one-shot weapons mainly because many such weapons can be customized with extra barrels, and also because GURPS is generic enough that somebody will doubtless come up with an obscure way to improve RoF enough that it matters. As you implied, Rcl isn't actually recoil . . . it's more a rating of the degree to which the weapon spreads around multiple shots, which is only partly to do with how much it rocks around. The actual force of recoil plays a larger role in the ST stat.

[mhd]

People overcompensating for recoil is probably handled through the familiarity penalty, right? (Combined with the probability of a generally low skill)

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by mhd

People overcompensating for recoil is probably handled through the familiarity penalty, right? (Combined with the probability of a generally low skill)

For sure. Tossing as bad as -6 onto skill for the very first shot, ever, that one fires from a given weapon is entirely justified. As the Guns skill notes, going from a handheld 5.56mm self-loader to a 12.7mm bolt gun propped up on a bipod can give -6, entirely from lack of familiarity. Of course, this wouldn't take long to lose, but the people in silly videos are typically ambushed by the friend making the video. The GM could apply similar penalties to stupid shooting practices, like taking a dare to fire a .300WM rifle one-handed like a giant handgun.

[Crakkerjakk]

There's the youtube video level of "overcompensating for recoil", and then there's just bad shooting habits. Typically you can spot people overcompensating for recoil when they're consitently shooting below their aimpoint. To verify, load a mag for them and sneak a snapcap/dummy round into the mag. It's usually very noticable when they are anticipating the recoil with a dud because the hammer will fall and the muzzle will dip by as much as an inch.

Gamewise, I would just call that "low or default skill levels".

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

For sure. Tossing as bad as -6 onto skill for the very first shot, ever, that one fires from a given weapon is entirely justified. As the Guns skill notes, going from a handheld 5.56mm self-loader to a 12.7mm bolt gun propped up on a bipod can give -6, entirely from lack of familiarity. Of course, this wouldn't take long to lose, but the people in silly videos are typically ambushed by the friend making the video. The GM could apply similar penalties to stupid shooting practices, like taking a dare to fire a .300WM rifle one-handed like a giant handgun.

Yeah, it's an issue with Muscle Powered weapons (bows, crossbows, thrown weapons) that get used with the Multishot imbuement. They don't have a RCL stat!They really should have one, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be RCL 1

[Kromm]

For Multishot on low-tech weapons that lack Rcl, I'd use Rcl 1 for Bulk 0 to -2, Rcl 2 for Bulk -3 or -4, Rcl 3 for Bulk -5 or -6, and so on.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

For Multishot on low-tech weapons that lack Rcl, I'd use Rcl 1 for Bulk 0 to -2, Rcl 2 for Bulk -3 or -4, Rcl 3 for Bulk -5 or -6, and so on.

I'm going to page Molokh to see if this can go into the FAQ. Still, it goes into my notes folder!

EDIT: or should I submit it as an errata?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

I'm going to page Molokh to see if this can go into the FAQ. Still, it goes into my notes folder!

EDIT: or should I submit it as an errata?

It isn't a correction for an error – it's just a suggested rule. For now, it's FAQ-worthy but not errata-worthy. We try to keep new additions off errata pages!

[willfreedo]

Thanks. Somehow I had forgotten that penalties for unfamiliarity do stack here.

Originally Posted by Kromm

The GM could apply similar penalties to stupid shooting practices, like taking a dare to fire a .300WM rifle one-handed like a giant handgun.

Indeed, Tactical Shooting does cover a lot of silly stances: with no other aid such as a sling, a long arm gets its ST multiplied by 1.5 when on a single hand. An average rifle with ST 10 on an average not-hero's hand, and it's very likely to crit the first time he shoots it (at least!)